Looking up Heraldry or Coats of Arms on the Web

[behindthefrogs]

Neither the crest nor the motto match anything in my reference books.  It is possible that a yeoman farmer could have been entitled to a coat of arms.  It would seem worthwhile looking at the 1575 visitation for an ancestor with a similar coat of arms.

David

[Nick Carver]

Can I point out an area where errors might arise without anyone being aware of it? If you go into a mediaeval church (for instance) with the heraldic devices of the local gentry carved into the woodwork or stonework. bear in mind that they may have been repainted over the centuries and not necessarily in the same colour. In my local church, there is one monument where the shield is differenced into 21 separate coats of arms. A friend of mine with extensive help from various national bodies has so far failed to discover the identity of at least 2 of these, most probably for the reason hitherto mentioned.

[Lesanne]

Hello Keith,
As David point's out... 
  Robert's birth is after the visitation 1575 but was about for the next one.
Do you know his father....  Robert would be able to carry his 'Arms'.

I've been trying to find a reference book on 'Armorial Bearings'. It listed families and their arms. I found it in Manchester, it could be in Chetham publications. 

[Lady Di]

I'm so pleased that you raised this subject Keith.

I also have a little challenge with a Coat of Arms at the moment. I have a copy from a Memorial in a church dated 1658 and I know the guy was "armed" (or whatever the term should be). My headache is now trying to ascertain what/who each of the nine quarters relate to.

Interesting point you've raised Nick - I hadn't thought about it being repainted - ummmmm that could raise a few problems 

Don't know where to start really but I shall have a look at the web sites mentioned above.

Thanks folks

Di
 

[behindthefrogs]

Can I point out an area where errors might arise without anyone being aware of it? If you go into a mediaeval church (for instance) with the heraldic devices of the local gentry carved into the woodwork or stonework. bear in mind that they may have been repainted over the centuries and not necessarily in the same colour. In my local church, there is one monument where the shield is differenced into 21 separate coats of arms. A friend of mine with extensive help from various national bodies has so far failed to discover the identity of at least 2 of these, most probably for the reason hitherto mentioned.

If you have the formal description (blazon) of a shield this strictly defines the layout and colours.  There are various rules which also apply to how the various colours relate to each other that can be checked within a quarter of a shield.  For example touching sections will never be coloured or metals, these will always alternate.

These will enable you to determine whether a repainting has been done correctly.  However you should also be aware that when a close family member is granted a coat of arms the differences are often created by just changing the colours.  Thus what you think is change made on repainting may in fact mean that the shield belongs to another family member.

David 

[Keith Sherwood]

Good morning!
And thanks again for all these thought-provoking comments.  Robert GURNER's grandfather was also called Robert GURNER (or GOURNER) and he didn't die till 1579...
My mother said that she remembers her father having a ring with exactly these details (minutely engraved) that I listed above; it was not a ring that could be used as a seal.  He thought it was 17thC in origin, and had been handed down through generations of his family.
But unfortunately it was lost or stolen when he lived in India in the 1940's.
The description of the coat of arms is similar to one I have seen somewhere for a branch of the GURNEY family, but I have so far been unable to find any link or descent from that (mainly Norfolk) family.
In the 1633 visitation for London, which I looked at on the link Lesanne kindly provided earlier in this thread, there are the arms for Richard GURNEY, Sheriff of London, who was later knighted by Charles 1st in about 1641 or 1642, and who was soon after that incarcerated in the Tower of London by the Parliamentarians.
His shield and crest is totally different, but his father was a Brian GURNEY (alias GURNARD) from Kendal.
An interesting aspect of this is that the GURNER name in Ickleton was GURNARD before it evolved through GOURNER to GURNER.  But again, haven't been able to make a common link.
Perhaps we will write to the College of Heralds for clarification, after all...
Regards, keith

[Lesanne]

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/cadency.htm

Found this Keith about the Royal Family... How the 'arms' change by generation..
    If you have a few hours to spare... 

[behindthefrogs]

You can't treat the Royal Coat of Arms as strictly following the rules.  They broke the rules when it was convenient.

David

[Lesanne]

               Tis true David...