Edward McMurchy of Campbeltown, Argyll, Scotland

[Horatioseeker]

I have just started this FH game and searching out my wife's antecedents came across your correspondence about Edward McMurchy.
His daughter Minnie/Myzie/Marian McMurchy from Killean married a Neil Macdonald/McDonald in 1866 and one of his sons was Edward Macdonald b. 1883, d. 1951 who won the DCM in 1917.  Edward's sister Jeannie married a John Macdonald from Sorn in Ayrshire in Beachmore Farm, Muasdale on the 10th Sep 1908. They had three sons Neil, Ian and Edward, and Edward was my wife's father.

Your research has taken this maternal line back a very long way, but the John Macdonald who married into it is a very elusive figure. He appears to have been an orphan but did have relaitives named Bain and Ambrose.

I would welcome your comments on this.

[MonicaL]

Hi HS

Welcome to RootsChat 

George has not been on line since June, hopefully he will see your message soon. What information do you have on the elusive John MacDonald. Have you looked at his marriage cert from 1908 to see what it said regarding his parents? What else do you know about him?

Monica 

[Horatioseeker]

Hello Monica,

Yes, I have had success with the elusive John McDonald. That's the birth certificate spelling despite his grand-daughter calling herself Macdonald!

He was born in Sorn, Ayrshire 29 Sep 1883, son of JohnMcDonald quarryman (b. 1858) and Mary Bone cotton mill worker (b. 1861)

He was illegitimate, as was Mary Bone's mother Margaret Bone. Unfortunately, his name was not on Mary's birth certificate.

His grandfather was a Charles McDonald, married to Elizabeth McDerment.

How the elusive John McDonald (b.1883) met his wife Jeanie Macdonald (b. ca. 1884) from Muasdale, Kintyre and the daughter of Marion (Mysie) McMurchy is not known.  They were married on 10 Sep  1908 at Beachmore Farm, Killean, Kintyre.

Fun, isn't it?

David

[MonicaL]

Hi David

Sounds like you have made progress  Don't worry about the MacD v. McD issue. You will find probably either or spelling on every document that you look at...as I know with my MacDonalds!

The other name spelling variant that you have is that of Bone and Bain/Bayne etc. Is this John in 1891:

Maggie Bain 44, Worsted Mill Worker, b. Dalry
John McDonald 7, nephew, b. Sorn

From what you said, is this John's grandmother? Likely that John's mother Mary may have married by this date perhaps.

Monica

[Horatioseeker]

It certainly looks on the face of it that this Maggie Bain is old enough to be John Macdonald's grandmother or possibly great aunt.

Moreover, the name Bain is very interesting. My family source about the Macdonalds and John (b.1883) in particular told me that his only known relatives were named Bain and Ambrose. She mentions an Uncle Joseph (Bain) and an Aunty Margaret (Ambrose). These produced three girl cousins, who turned into elderly spinsters and all died in Glasgow. Their names were Margaret, Isobel and Elizabeth Bain, also known as Meg, Tibbie and Lizzie.

Could Bone and Bain be the same? Could there be two Margarets? Is Joseph Maggie's brother?

The search goes on.

all the best,

David

[MonicaL]

David

Could this be the source of all the names you have as reference. Possible entry for John's mother Mary's birth?

MARY BAIN Birth: 07 SEP 1861 Sorn
Parents:JOSEPH BAIN and MARGARET AMBROSE

Monica

[MonicaL]

Have you seen the birth entry for Mary to see whether parents show as married (I think you said you thought her birth was illegitimate). Apart from Mary's birth, there is another son showing to this couple born in Sorn in 1857 (James on 23 AUG 1857 Sorn). There is this entry in 1871:

Margaret Bain 53 b. Ireland
Margaret Bain 26 daughter, mill worker, b. Dalry, Ayrshire
Robert Bain 19, son coal miner b. Dalry
John Bain 15 son b. Sorn
James Bain 13 son, b. Sorn
Mary Bain daugh 9 b. Sorn

Address Sorn Village

The answer is there somewhere! I think this is this family in 1861 with the surname mis transcribed (Scotlands People will hopefully be clearer):

Joseph Barie 47, iron miner b. Ireland
Margaret Barie 45 b. ireland
George Barie 22 b. Ireland
Joseph Barie 20 b. ireland
Margaret Barie 14 b. Dalry
Helen Barie 11 b. Dalry
Robert Barie 8 b. Dalry
John Barie 6 b. Sorn
James Barie 3 b. Sorn

Address: Grocers Shop, Sorn

David, looking at these census entries, I'm not sure that Mary's birth was illegitimate  She does look to be the daughter of Margaret Snr (Ambrose). This would then fit well with John MacDonald showing as living with his Aunt Margaret Bain in that 1891 entry from earlier. These entries are all post 1855 so hopefully you should find Joseph Bain Snr's and Margaret Ambrose/Bain's death certs to help clarify and confirm.

Monica

[Horatioseeker]

Monica, I think I must have jumped the gun when I found a birth certificate for a Mary Bone born in Hope Street, Ayr in 1861. This is probably not the same Mary Bone that fathered John Macdonald.  Your figures make much more sense.  John's Aunty Margaret seems to be the one born in 1847 (the Maggie Bain of 1891) and Uncle Joseph, the older brother, born six years before. They seem to have moved to Sorn ca. 1840.
 
My wife, John Macdonald's grand-daughter, and her first cousin in Macclesfield, the other grand-daughter, will be delighted at the progress.

I shall have another trawl in Scotlands People.

[Horatioseeker]

Monica, I have just realised that I didn't see your posting regarding Mary Bain's birth in Sorn 7 Sep 1861 to Joseph Bain and Margaret Ambrose. This clears it up well. I expect and will check that they were both dead when he was born. There was a suggestion from the granddaughter that John Macdonald was an orphan when he was born - clearly his mother might have been and the birth certificate of Mary Bone in Ayr  I looked at, is the wrong one!
Onwards and upwards,
cheers, David