I'm having doubts?

['Trish']

I have been trying to piece together the life of James Watts married 27 April 1829 to Elizabeth Maria Weeks.  I have that James Watts was born 1804- 06 according to 1841 Census where he says not born in County of Berkshire.  Could it be possible that he was born elsewhere?

1841 Census Market Place Wokingham
James Watts age 37 Glazier born outside county - Yes
Maria Watts age 37
Rebecca age 8
Agnes age 5

1848 Kellys Directory
James Watts painter plumber Glazier Market Place

1851 Census
James Watts  Head age 47  Plumber/Painter employing 2 men born Romsey Hants
Christiana age 50

Slaters Berkshire Directory 1852-53
Market Place James Watts Plumber/Painter/Glazier

1871 Census Balking Village
James Watts head m age 65 ag lab born Berks - Keyston Lisle
Maria Watts wife F age 55 born Berks - Littleworth

I found a birth of a James Watts in Romsey 23. 2. 1804 and I believed it to be him, also finding siblings with him.  But dont know if this is the correct one as he has said he was born Kingston Lisle and there seems to be several Watts family there.

Why I have doubt is that in a diary James Watts grandaughter Julia Edith Watts writes that there is another connection to Isaac Watts the hymnwriter, through the Watts-Tye family.  This being Ann Watts who married Walter Tye and having four children in the Hadleigh area fo Suffolk.  I have traced Ann back to her parents,Hepzibah Cook who married a Lewis Watts at St John, Frome 23 May 1814.
Have I been tracing the wrong family all this time?  Could Ann Watts (b c1830) be a relation of James Watts born 1804-06.
How do I go about proving or disproving the connection between these two families.  Obviously Julia Edith Watts thought there was a connection as mentioned in her diary.  But as yet I cannot see any connection.  Could she have been wrong?
1861 Census High Street Hadleigh
transcribed as fye
RG9/1135/89/23
walter tye age 29(mistranscribed as 39). B. Mendlesham. Occ. Grocer. Head.
Annie age 30. B. Frome. Occ. Milliner. Wife.
Edward.w. Age 2. B. Suffolk. Son.
Living at high street,hadleigh.

Can anyone help me?
Regards Trish

[DebbieG]

Hi

I don't think the couple you have found in 1871 are the same people.  I can see James Watts plummer & Glazier born Southampton married to Christina in 1851 and 1861 living in Wokingham.  There is a burial in the Berks burial undex at Wokingham baptist Church in 1876 for Christiana Watts aged 75 which would seem to fit,  and therefore suggests that they were baptists,  there is also a burial at Wokingham Baptist Church in 1863 for a James Watts - unfortunatly no age given,  but this could be James the glazier and therefore not in the 1871 census. 

DebbieG

[DebbieG]

Oh - I've just checked a bit more on theose burial records,  there is a burial  at Wokingham Baptists 13th March 1846 for Maria w/o James Watts aged 42.  Then the one I mentioned for James Watts 8th May 1863 where although there is no age there is the comment father of James Watts jnr,  there is also the one for Christiana 19 Feb 1876 comment step mother of James Watts of Milton Road Wokingham aged 75

I found this possible second marriage for James the elder

Marriages Dec 1846   
 
Foyle  Edward    Warminster  8 771   
Glanvill  Christiana     Warminster  8 771   
Price  Mary Ann     Warminster  8 771   
Trimby  Jonah     Warminster  8 771   
Watts  James     Warminster  8 771   
Watts  Piely     Warminster  8 771   
Watts  Piety     Warminster  8 771   

Which means that you could send for the certificate if you wanted to check who his father was

 

DebbieG

['Trish']

I have the inscriptions of the gravestones from the baptist church in Wokingham.  Christiana was married twice, first to Rev Richard Clanvill married 21 Mar 1827 Abergavenny.  Then Christiana married James Watts (snr).  Yes Christiana died 19 Feb 1876 and is buried at the Baptist church.  James Watts first wife is also buried there Maria Elizabeth Weeks died 1846 with infant son James Henry.
What I am questioning is James & Maria Watts son James Watts also, married Julia Heffer Mar q 1869 Wokingham.  But the diary mentions  quote ' Lizzie Tye at High View Cottage Monewden Woodbridge, Brother at Ipswich Edward Watts Tye.  Her mother (Ann Tye nee Watts) & grandma Quick (meaning Rebecca Maria dau of James Watts (snr)) were cousins - descended from two branches of Isaac Watts brothers'.
I have two Isaac Watts in the family tree one born 14 Mar 1797 Romsey & Isaach/Isaac born 1765.  The first Isaac is brother to James Watts (snr), the other is father to James Watts (snr).
Its getting confusing!
What I am trying to say is I have James Watt born 23 Feb 1804 Romsey, and James Watts bap 11 Mar 1804 Rook lane Church Frome.  Ann Watts nee Tye who I mentioned earlier was also bap 22 June 1828 Rook lane Church Frome Somerset. 
Have I been chasing the wrong one all along and where I have been presuming that James Watts snr was born in Romsey when in fact he was born in Frome Somerset.  Which would make sense of the entry in the family diary.  Could James Watt jnr have married firstly Julia Watts nee Heffer, then married a 'cousin' Ann Tye nee Watts or her daughter Lizzie Watts Tye? Julia died 1916.
Can you see where I am coming from?
Hope you can
regards Trish

[polarbear]

Hello 'Trish'

I had much of the info that you just posted while I was typing so have erased it. I will mull over the info again and hope I can suggest something. It is rather complicated, isn't it?

Polarbear

['Trish']

Yes somewhat, maybe the family legend in the diary is wrong maybe she presumed that Ann Tye nee Watts was a 'cousin' or Ann's daughter Lizzie Watts Tye born 1864 was related.  Looking at the diary entry again she actually calls her Aunt Rebbecca, grandmother Quick. 
Its actually worded as though James Watts brothers Isaac or John was father to Ann Tye nee Watts.  But I have found her baptism and her father is Lewis Watts & her mother Hepzibah Watts nee Cook married Frome - 23 May 1814 Frome.
regards Trish

[DebbieG]

MMM  OK - I am starting to get with you now,  I was led astray by your posting of the 1871 census for an unconnected (I believe) James Watts.  so who were the fathers of James born Frome and James born Romsey?  cos unless their father's both have the same name the marriage certificate of James to Christiana could help separate them

DebbieG

['Trish']

I am going to well and truly muddy the waters now!  I have Edward Watts Tye marrying Emma Amelia Watts 2nd May 1869 and guess where Frome!
I also found that Emma's parents are John & Ann Watts but dont have their marriage.
All these Watts coming out of the wood work!
Ok back to James Watts one born 11 Mar 1804 Frome father William & mother Ann.  James Watts born 23 Feb 1804 Romsey father Isaach/Isaac Watts mother Rebecca Archer, married 9 Nov 1787 Romsey.
Which is right?  Difficult.
regards Trish

[polarbear]

Hi again,

Edit... you are too fast for my typing

Question....assuming I have understood your notes, 'Trish'

If James Henry was buried with his mother Maria, where did James who married Julia come from? There are only Agnes and Rebecca with the father and stepmother in 1851.

Here is the complete 1861 Census....

James Watts 57 Plummer (sic) and Glazier b. Romsey Hants
Chrisanna 60 b. Monmouth, Abergaveney
James Watts son  15 b. Berks Wokingham

RG9 Piece 750 Folio 15 p. 24

Was this James jnr with another rellie in 1851? Haven't yet found him in 1851 Census.

Was James Henry an earlier James?

Polarbear