NSW - Guilty of conspiracy - Cpt WARREN and the JONES'S

[alunno-a]

Hello,
I have been getting some fanastic help from the good people on the Common Room board in my quest to solve the mysterious "scandal" around one ERNEST EDWIN WARREN- and it's been suggested I try here too.
This is from The Argus, Melbourne, 08 Nov 1923--

"GUILTY OF CONSPIRACY"

"Ernest Edwin Warren, retired Master Mariner, who, it is alleged, had been under the domination of James Thomas Jones, admitted at the Darlinghurst (Sydney) Sessions yesterday that he was suffering from loss of memory. James Thomas Jones, farmer, and  Charles Edwin Jones, salesman, were charged with having conspired to cheat and defraud Arthur Henry Greaves, owner of Brooklyn Station, near Tamut (?), Ralph Abraham, who was the mortgagee; Captain Ernest Warren, and James Francis Thomas, solicitor, of Sydney, of property and large sums of money. The Jury returned a verdict of guilty. James Thomas Jones was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment, with hard labour, and Charles Edwin Jones was sentenced to nine months imprisonment with hard labour. "

Does anyone know anything about this case or the people mentioned???  I'd be really grateful for any snippets of info at all!!!
Thank-you, Sally.

Please see: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,375157.0.html

[tropicalj]

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

If  you  have a  look at  the on line index  you  will see a couple of  deaths  for Ernest E Warren,  whether  they  refer to  the man in  the articile  though is anyone's guess!

near Tamut

   the  name of  the town is TUMUT

kind thoughts  Jenn

[judb]

Looking at the newspaper article online I would suggest that it is Brooklyn station near TUMUT.  Oh, beaten by Jenn

http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

I couldn't see anything about Brooklyn station by Googling but there is a vistor centre at Tumut which may be worth contacting
Tumut Region Visitor Information Centre
5 Adelong Road
Tumut, NSW 2720
Telephone: 02 - 6947 7025

Cheers, Judith

[alunno-a]

Thanks so much for these replies!

Judb, would this "station" (Forgive the ignorant English women), be like a farm, ie cattle/sheep ranch? or are we talking petrol station ( or even a train station in private hands)??

Jenn, thank-you for the hint to look up the death--I can find Ernest EDWARD Warren d 1943, who was son of William Thomas and Sarah Ann (Wain), but not an Ernest EDWIN. The article might not be about my relation, but mine was definately an Edwin, as in the paper, so I am hoping it is the same. We have a "source" so far giving this man's death as 1925 in London, so NOT finding him in NSW is at least comforting. Oddly he may have been born and buried in Canada.

Thank-you so much, again, Sally

[tropicalj]

The best way  to describe a "Station"  referred to in  the Newspaper Article   is a very very very large  farm  very similiar to  a "ranch"  in  the USA ,  Some Stations in Australia  are  bigger than several English countries put together.

If you  give parents name  for your Ernest Warren I  ccan check for his death in Victoria.

Jenn

[judb]

Had a look at The TUMUT ADVOCATE and FARMERS and SETTLERS ADVISOR to see if there was any mention of the case seeing as the Brooklyn Station is supposed to be near Tumut.
There is a small article in the issue dated November 13, 1923 to the effect that a Police Constable was congratulated by the Judge for his excellent memory of the interviews with the convicted n the trial as mentioned in The Argus.  Strangely the article only mentions that the trial was for cheating and defrauding  Greaves and Thomas - no mention of E E Warren at all!

I've just read the full acount of the trial in The Sydney Morning Herald which makes fascinating reading.  Hope you don't mind if I leave it till tomorrow to type up as I need to do some other things while I'm here at the Library.

Sorry to keep you in supense.  Judith

[judb]

The Sydney Morning Herald has accounts of the trial over three days November 6, 7 and 8, 1923.

Sally, I'll pm you the scans I did but thought others might be interested in some parts of the report -

Accused and charges are as the article qoted by alunno-a in The Argus.

"Ernest Edwin Warren, better known as Captain Warren, it has been alleged, was kept in a state of 'dope' for a considerable time while his property was gradually taken away from him."
The Jones cousins were trying to obtain part of the Brooklyn Station property Ravine, near Tumut.
C E Jones went to the lawyer saying he was Warren's nephew and was acting for Warren to buy the property, and that Warren had other property in the New Hebrides.  He also said that Warren was expecting some money from his father's estate in Canada.

Josephine Mary Reiss said she had been housekeeper for J T Jones and Warren for a year from May 1922 at Newport, Hornsby and Epping (northern suburbs of Sydney).  For that year Captain Warren never left the house "and was in the same mental condition as at present".

Ernest Edwin Warren,"retired master mariner and member of the RNR" said he had never met C E Jones but had met J T Jones at the Hotel Mansions then went with him to a house in Bondi.  He noticed his memory failing some time after he met Jones.  He also lived as above plus North Sydney andEnmore.

A police constable alleged that J T  Jones had been "keeping Captain Warren in a room in Nth Sydney and tried to get him away to New York"

The Jones cousins were found guilty and sentanced as shown in the first article.

Quite intriguing - and perhaps the Canadian connection is true but who knows!

Cheers, Judith

[alunno-a]

Hi,
Judith, I can't thank-you enough! I am in suspense now. I am not that surprised that Warren as a victim, was not mentioned in the piece you found--if he is the man I am looking for, I suspect he may not have been a completely innocent party- the family stressed that he was involved in some sort of "scandal" that they tried to "hush-up", and that it involved him loosing a fair amount of money-  implying I think some sort of complicity!

Jenn, Thank-you for the description of a "station"-  looks like this was quite a scam going on. My Ernest Edwin Warren gave his father's name as James, a carriage manufacturer. I don't know the mother's name , as I cannot find a UK birth for him. (Actually I can find more than one birth if he was born in UK- but am a bit reluctant to buy a lot of certificates untill I am sureish he was born here). We always assumed he died in Australia, as the family said he went missing there- but some references to a EEW b c 1871 in London, identify him as dying 1925 in London, buried-or commemmorated Newfoundland, due to parents James Warren and Annie Alcock being of NFLD. I have sent for a death cert that could be him, but it would be really great if you could check that this Ernest Edwin did or didn't die in Aus- as at least then I can find out for sure if he is the SAME man as the Canadian one.  I saw an Ernest Edward death in Aus- 1939 I think, but not an Edwin. --I am confusing myself here- I hope this makes sense to you !!!

Thank-you all so much--Again,
Sally

[judb]

Quite some story, eh?

Sorry i won't get to PM you till tomorrow - visitors for dinner so I need to be at the oven - LOL  The details relevant to identifying him are in my reply above as I thought someone else may be able to find him.

Judith