Author Topic: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)  (Read 5460 times)

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #9 on: Friday 17 April 09 17:16 BST (UK) »
This one is a real toughie, isn't it?

Best I can offer is

Die sexta novembris et an[n]i millesimi
septingentisimi sexti ego [?prefacscriptus?]
baptizavi Joannem baptistam filium
Catherine [?Verlijndes?] solute afferentis
patrem esse Guilielum Cominke etiam
solutum mortuum in [?Cehtezdele?]
natum [??] die circa [??][??]
sii [?sceptores?] fuerunt Joannes baptista
[?roughd?] et arnijche et [??][??]
[?vlalscappel] et blaucappel qd testor
          J. B: Ang de Haems pastor jn
                                 blaucappel.

And as a translation

On the sixth day of November and of the year one thousand
seven hundred and six, I [possibly an office which he held]
have baptised Joannes baptised*
son of Catherine [?Verlijndes]  a spinster asserting
the father to be Gulielmus Comincke, also
single, deceased§,  in [?Cehtezdele]
born§  [??] day about [??]{??]
[his?] [?sceptores] were Joannes baptised*
roughes and arnijche [??][??][??]
[?vlalscappel] and blaucappel to which I bear witness.
          J B: Ang de Haems pastor in
                                   blaucappel.

Notes

* this word appears twice with female endings though apparently referring to male persons.
§  I'm not quite clear whether Gulielmus  died or was born in ?Cehtezdele.

Just for the record, septingentisimus is correct for 700th. - appears here in the genitive case ending i instead of the nominative us.

Could sceptores mean sponsors? Can't find it in a dictionary but seems likely in context




Offline Just Kia

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #10 on: Friday 17 April 09 18:13 BST (UK) »
Wow - thanks Roger.
I've been told that Guillaume died 28th May 1706 and was probably born in Ochtezeele - which is where he married his first wife and also where she died too.
Catherine was from Wemaers-Cappel.
WIMBUSH - Everywhere :: MARLOW/JECOCK/JUSTICE - Northamptonshire/Warwickshire/Oxfordshire :: SCALES/BRIDGES/ENGLISH/SPINK/PETCH/GOOCH/COCKSEDGE - Suffolk :: GARRETT/GIBBS/FEARN - Warwickshire :: DEVOS - Scotland (Aberdeen)/France(Dunkerque) :: MURRAY - Ireland(Down)/Scotland(Lochs) :: TIGHE/TREACY - Cork

Stanley Charles SCALES b.1899 - Where are you?    ***   

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #11 on: Friday 17 April 09 18:46 BST (UK) »
I can see it is indeed Ochtezeele now. That looks more Dutch or Flemish than French, as does the ij in some of the names.

Pleased to have been of assistance.

Roger :)

Offline MKG

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #12 on: Friday 17 April 09 19:11 BST (UK) »
Yep, I have to agree - forget France.  Ang de Haems pastor in blaucappel did it for me. If it's 1706 you're looking at Flanders and the Spanish Netherlands, I think. Im just going to check the names of other places mentioned and the history of Latin usage in the area at that time (very Protestant - should be using native language). Back later.

Mike

Quick check results - all names and places point to (or are in) Nord Pas de Calais - France now but Flanders then, just in the process of being forcibly handed over to the French.
Griffiths, Howard, Johnson, McLeod, Rizz(a)(i)(o)
Berwick (Tweedmouth and Spittal), Blyth(N'land) between the wars, Wrexham, Tattersett


Offline Just Kia

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #13 on: Friday 17 April 09 20:52 BST (UK) »
Yes, seems all my French ancestors were from the Nord-Pas-de-Calais or Flanders Littorale.
So... that's Flemish? Well, that fits quite well as DEVOS ("the fox" I believe) is a Dutch name and I wondered if I'd ever get a connection.
The DEVOS' and DECONINCK's married, but were all from the same area.
Amazing how little things start to fall into place to make a bigger picture.
WIMBUSH - Everywhere :: MARLOW/JECOCK/JUSTICE - Northamptonshire/Warwickshire/Oxfordshire :: SCALES/BRIDGES/ENGLISH/SPINK/PETCH/GOOCH/COCKSEDGE - Suffolk :: GARRETT/GIBBS/FEARN - Warwickshire :: DEVOS - Scotland (Aberdeen)/France(Dunkerque) :: MURRAY - Ireland(Down)/Scotland(Lochs) :: TIGHE/TREACY - Cork

Stanley Charles SCALES b.1899 - Where are you?    ***   

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #14 on: Friday 17 April 09 22:06 BST (UK) »
Justkia, do you have any knowledge of the religion of these ancestors? If they were Protestant, they might perhaps have been Huguenots, driven out of this area about that time or a decade or two earlier. Many were weavers and settled in Norwich and London, but no doubt other trades were represented who might have gone elsewhere.

While looking at your document I thought it was strange that a pastor was writing in Latin, as I associate (perhaps wrongly?) the term pastor with Protestant clergy and the use of Latin at this date with the Roman Catholics. However MKG's post makes me wonder if perhaps there was some law imposed by the authorities requiring BMD records to be written in Latin?


Offline MKG

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #15 on: Friday 17 April 09 23:36 BST (UK) »
You've probably already done this, JustKia, but a few name derivations ...

DE VOS - the fox i.e. someone with red hair.

DE CONINCK - the king (via Middle Dutch coninc - modern equivalent Koning) - guild name for a leader of craftsmen/minstrels/archers. (And now I'm fascinated by Roger's ex-pat weavers!!!).

VERLYNDE - (probably a contraction of van der Linden) - of the lime trees.

Mike
Griffiths, Howard, Johnson, McLeod, Rizz(a)(i)(o)
Berwick (Tweedmouth and Spittal), Blyth(N'land) between the wars, Wrexham, Tattersett

Offline Roger in Sussex

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 18 April 09 07:48 BST (UK) »
JustKia, if you want to follow up on my Huguenot idea, there is a thread on the Scotland General board started by Jeanette H which might be interesting. Just search for "Huguenot"

Roger :)

Offline Just Kia

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Re: Decipher & Translate Please (Old French Or Latin?)
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 18 April 09 15:13 BST (UK) »
Thanks for those Mike.
Roger, I've no idea what religion they were. I'll have a read of the thread on the Scotland board.
Feel like I'm sinking in French right now - I think I've suddenly aquired more documented evidence on my French branch all at once, than I've got in over a year of searching my English lines LOL.
WIMBUSH - Everywhere :: MARLOW/JECOCK/JUSTICE - Northamptonshire/Warwickshire/Oxfordshire :: SCALES/BRIDGES/ENGLISH/SPINK/PETCH/GOOCH/COCKSEDGE - Suffolk :: GARRETT/GIBBS/FEARN - Warwickshire :: DEVOS - Scotland (Aberdeen)/France(Dunkerque) :: MURRAY - Ireland(Down)/Scotland(Lochs) :: TIGHE/TREACY - Cork

Stanley Charles SCALES b.1899 - Where are you?    ***