Author Topic: Coopers from Shere  (Read 5715 times)

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #9 on: Friday 24 April 09 14:34 BST (UK) »
1901 - Harry, Norman, Arthur and Eva are still at home

RG13 601 102 22
Peaslake Shere
Thomas 59 Farm labourer
Rose 53
Harry 21
Norman 16
Arthur 15
Eva 12
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #10 on: Friday 24 April 09 14:37 BST (UK) »
Looks like Dad Thomas died in 1919

Jan/Feb/Mar 1919
Thomas Cooper
age 77
Guildford 2a 193
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #11 on: Friday 24 April 09 14:42 BST (UK) »
Her next certificate shows her marriage to my grandad in Edinbugh, at St. Giles in 1921.
They lived and died in the area,

Just re reading. So did Ethel die in Scotland?
Have I misunderstood - thought you were travelling from Scotland down to Shere to follow her and hopefully find her grave.
I usually get the wrong end of the stick!!
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #12 on: Friday 24 April 09 14:53 BST (UK) »
Thought I was on to something with this birth:

Oct/Nov/Dec 1892
Athol Scott Cooper
Barnet

but he is on 1901 at RG13 1235 10 12, with parents Charles and Mary and LOTS of siblings - none of which seem to have any obvious link with Shere.

But then, for the Athol that your sister remembers to have been a 'boy' in 1943, he would not have been born till 1925- 1940 approx.

Looking at indexes for that range (the full one that is now on Anc) there are numerous Athols born, but I see just one in Guildford reg distr:

Athole A Stobart Jan/Feb/Mar 1915

who knows?
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #13 on: Friday 24 April 09 15:01 BST (UK) »
Likely marriage for little Evelyn

Jul/Aug/Sep 1915
Guildford 2a 301
to Thomas Coombes

(there is another possible on FreeBMD, but thatEvelyn has a middle initial M. Marries Mr Walker in 1922)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Jake Drummond

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #14 on: Friday 24 April 09 18:24 BST (UK) »
You're doing some good work there, and are obviously much better at it than I am!
I'll log all of the information in my GR tree so that I can keep track of the Cooper siblings of Ethel, as I'm sure all of your research will lead me nearer to finding her.

The chronology of the Cooper and Gardner intertwining is thus;
In 1921 Ethel was married to John Bain Gardner in Edinburgh and strangely gave her usual residence as 23 The Square, Penicuik, the home as it turns out, of a James Bain, who could have been JBG's uncle, though there's no record of him having one such named. John's mum was Agnes Bain.
They married after my grandmother died in childbirth, and Ethel took my 5 year old mum under her care in Peaslake or thereabouts and raised her as her own.

This according to family stories from late mum is how things progressed;
Ethel had been in service and later had nursing training, which we assume was for the war effort, and had helped nurse my grandad back to health after one of his spells or recuperation from his injuries in France during WW1, in a house given over for the purpose for the duration of the war. Where this was is unclear, but Ethel's last workplace and residence we have records of would be Hound House.. (Oh to have paid more attention when I was wee!!)
Upon demobilisation John Gardner was offered work by the house owner but returned home to Scotland and his wife and family, but his wife Jane Dick died in early 1920 during childbirth as did the unfortunate child, and that and the fact that his injuries made work in the mines very difficult, prompted him to take up the offer and he met up again with Ethel by letter (probably to arrange his job), married her a year later and moved with my mum, who was then 5 years old and the bairn of the family, to Surrey.
The bare facts of this point to John and Ethel forming a close relationship while he was recuperating I'd guess, and her Penicuik address might have been a convenient place for her to stay prior to her marriage in nearby Edinburgh.
Mum's siblings stayed here in Scotland as they were older and all had their futures here.
My mum lived and worked with Ethel and her dad in the area around Peaslake, though she often mentioned walking on the common at Wimbledon, Epsom, and visiting Brighton and Hove with her employers who may have had a house there, and stayed south of the border until she was a teenager, though she returned home to Scotland for holidays with the family travelling from Leith by ship to sail into the Thames. She moved back up here, aged we think around 16, meeting my dad and eventually marrying and staying here.

We have no recall of her travelling down to England during the war years when we think John Gardner may have died, and my sister and brother cannot ever remember her being away from home then, or in the 'fifties when Ethel could have died, so it may be that Ethel's visit up here in Scotland when my mum was ill after losing twins in childbirth coincided with John Gardner's death. She loved Ethel dearly, and it seems inconceivable that she would have missed the funeral, but was she informed?...............
We know that my uncle, mum's brother, and his wife kept contact with Ethel, hence a cousin having memories of Ethel and the photographs.

Another part of the mystery is this;
I traced a photograph of a grave in Putney Vale Cemetery and the image was kindly sent by charles.sale at gravesphotos.com and this shows the following;
"John Gardner, died 9th Sept. 1943 aged 63 and Lilian Gardner, died 1st April 1956, aged 79"
Had my mum known of or seen the gravestone she would surely have pointed out the error (assuming we're looking at the correct gravestone), and surely whoever paid for the headstone would have noticed?
So, surely, would her remaining family...............

There's no memory of any story that JBG married any Lilian, but we have Ethel and Lilian as sisters, listed on the same census under different names and living where they did, which seems correct for each of them.
There is another Cooper family living in Shere, cousins all in the likely event, and I think I've managed to separate which lot is which so I don't think I have any errors, and as you see there are ample pointers to say which Cooper is which.

If only the English death records gave parents names I could pinpoint John Gardner, Ethel and Lilian's parents, which would prove or disprove the error, or not, on the gravestone. Of course, this grave could be of another unrelated John Gardner............

I've been pondering all this for some time now, hence my post here looking for help, advice or suggestions, and as I'm getting older I feel it's time to sort it all out before its too late and get down there and pay my respects to the people who so shaped the pattern of my mum's life, and mine.
Gardner, Ritchie, Adamson, Drummond, Dunigan, Kilday, Ireland, Horsburgh, Dick....and others.
Mostly all Fife in the 1900's, but obviously some Irish connections!

Offline Uncle Reff

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
  • It's Déjà vu, all over again...
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #15 on: Friday 24 April 09 19:31 BST (UK) »
Just to be pedantic, Shere is in Surrey not Sussex... ;)

John
Researching: Reffell, Rattle, Summerhayes, Dane, Masset, Burchatt & Leshley... & Jones!

Offline Jake Drummond

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #16 on: Friday 24 April 09 21:21 BST (UK) »
I posted in "England - General" actually as my search, though Shere based, was intended to encompass all the southern counties as that seems to be where the Coopers might have strayed to. Maybe the Moderator allocated it to Sussex, but I failed to notice that.
Gardner, Ritchie, Adamson, Drummond, Dunigan, Kilday, Ireland, Horsburgh, Dick....and others.
Mostly all Fife in the 1900's, but obviously some Irish connections!

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Coopers from Shere
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 25 April 09 15:45 BST (UK) »
What a lovely family tale, jake. I hope you write it all down so the story is preserved for future generations.

I do wonder about that Putney Vake grave - there is absolutely no evidence at the moment that it is John Bain Gardner and either a second wife or a mis-named wife. In fact, the fact that the wifes name does not link with other knowledge of him indicates it is not him at all.

The death index ref for that death is:
Jul/Aug/Sep 1943
Brentford  6a 232
John Gardner age 63

whether the death cert will show enough to prove/disprove whether he is yours or not, i dont know. Maybe an occupation or something might help. Probably registered by widow - Lillian.

Another way to rule in/out this guy would be to look for a will and see what that says.

But it does seem, on ths face of it, doubtful that this is him. unless the person who found it had some other info which led them to it.

Have you actually been through the full death indexes, quarter by quarter, looking for John BAin Gardner's death? A long job, i know, with no actual idea of when he died, but possible with patience.

have you any clues that John and Ethel left the Shere area? Or is it most likely they died there i.e Guildford reg district?

Sorry, lots of questions!
I am not much help on this, but trying to do anything I can to find out anything that I can - or to suggest avenues you might try and pursue..


Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk