London Metroplitan Archives Lookup request

[Beaujolaiswine]

Hi

I am seeking a little help from someone planning to visit the L.M.A.

I am looking for details of my great grandmother Mary Ann Watts who was born in the Lambeth Workhouse, Princes Road, Lambeth on 9 Jul 1855.

On her birth certificate no name is given for her father and her mother's name is given as Ann Watts.

I know that the L.M.A archives are being transcribed for online viewing, but so far there is no Admissions and Discharges or Religious Creed data etc., online yet for this Workhouse.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

many thanks

Richard

[dawnsh]

Hi Richard

Do you still need this look-up?

Dawn

[Beaujolaiswine]

Hi Dawn

Yes please.

I have been able to see the Religious Creed data on Ancestry but the admissions and discharge data is not yet available for 1855 although I was able to find out that she was born in the workhouse and baptised on Aug 6th 1855 with mother Ann and father unknown.

I am particularly interested in the Admissions data for Mary Ann Watts mother, Ann Watts, to see if this discloses who Ann's parents were and how old Ann was.

Any further help would be very much appreciated.

Best wishes

Richard

[dawnsh]

Hi Richard

I can't promise an immediate response but I'll be working on and off at the LMA until September, I'll see what I can find out.

Dawn

[Beaujolaiswine]

Hi Dawn

Thanks  very much for the offer.

The exact parents on my great grandmother Mary Ann Watts have been a mystery too me.

On her marriage to my great grandfather John Goodey on 11 Jan 1880 her age is recorded as 20 and father as Frederick Watts deceased occupation Tailor on the marriage certificate which I have. I know this doesn't fit with her birth being potentially in 1855 at Princes Road workhouse in Lambeth. (one of the witnesses is Elizabeth Watts).

The only Census return I have been able to find for a Frederick Watts (occupation Tailor) with a daughter Mary is the 1871 Census

According to the 1871 living at 2 Henry Place (Parish of St. Silas Islington London)
Frederick Watts  60 born abt. 1811 in Warminster Wiltshire a Tailor
Mary Watts 60 born abt. 1811 in Islington
with their children???
Mary Watts 15 born abt. 1855
Thomas Watts 7   born abt 1864
Betsey Watts 12 born abt. 1859
Minnie Watts 10 born abt. 1861
All children born in  Lambeth, Surrey. The parents appear to be too old to be the parents. Possibly they were the grand parents?

So far I have the following information from a copy of the original birth certificate for a Mary Ann Watts born at the workhouse and from what records are available through Ancestry concerning the workhouse as follows:-

Mary Ann Watts was born on 9th July 1855 at 2.45am (time is actually on the certificate which I have!) in the Workhouse on Princes Road, (now Black Prince Road) in Lambeth, London.
No name is given for her father and her mother is given as Ann Watts.

There is baptism another record obtained from Ancestry of a birth of a Mary Ann Watts on 9th August 1855 in Lambeth Workhouse where the mother is Ann Watts and the father is unknown. ? entered Workhouse or entries for August births by staff member in register on 9th Aug 1855.

Also according to the Creed Register of Lambeth Workhouse on Princes Road. This record records the admission of Ann Watts age 19 Class 5 Ward 5 Calling Servant, Marital status S, Religious Persuasion Protestant, who was brought in by PC 107 L from Lower Kennington Lane at 11.00pm on 8th July 1855 in labour. Discharged O. N. (?) with female child Class 11 Ward 5 Religions Persuasion Protestant born 9th July 1855, on 23 July 1855.

It may well have been that my Mary Ann Watts eventually knew who her real father was (assuming Frederick Watts was say her grandfather but brought her up as his daughter) as she appears to have alternated in the use of her maiden name from Watts to Hunt on the birth certificates of her 6 children (4 of which I have copies of).

Anyway thanks for your kind offer to look up the 1855 admissions and discharges data for the Princes Road Workhouse in Lambeth.

Best wishes

Richard 

[dawnsh]

Hi Richard

Not good news I'm afraid 

The earliest surviving admission & discharge registers are dated 1868

Dawn

[Beaujolaiswine]

Hi Dawn

Thanks very much for looking anyway.

Best wishes

Richard

[Lynne EnZed]

Hi Richard

Might it be worth following up on Frederick and Mary WATTS in earlier census records to see what can be found, i.e., were there older children, possibly including a daughter Ann?

I have come across a situation where three [illegitimate] siblings were stated as the children of their Grandparents.

Do you have Ann and Mary in 1861? (Sorry, I do not have access to Ancestry.)

Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne

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God is faithful!

[Lynne EnZed]

Hi again Richard

You mentioned a witness to your Great Grandparent's marriage was Elizabeth WATTS. One of the children in the household of Frederick and Mary was Betsy, which can be short for Elizabeth.

It might be worth trying to find the family in 1861 to see if that helps?

Another suggestion is that you might have the wrong birth certificate? FreeBMD has the birth in Lambeth of Mary Ann WATTS in September 1855 and also a death in the same quarter. Could that be why there was a time on the birth certificate if she died not long afterwards? Not sure how that works as have only heard of times being on birth certificates where there were twins/multiple births involved? Unless it has something to do with the workhouse procedures?

Is it possible the marriage certificate is right and the 1871 Census record is for your Mary, daughter of Frederick and Mary?

Where then is the birth certificate for their daughter who was born about the same time and place as your "Mary Ann" daughter of Ann whose birth would appear to be the one you have from 9 July 1855 (September quarter in Lambeth on FreeBMD)?? 

Could not see Frederick and Mary in 1881?

Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne

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God is good!