Help! Butler Family in Clackmannankshire 1871

[MonicaL]

Possible marriage for your Aunt Ada:

Marriages 1st Qrt 1935   
Sheppard    Ada A/ Denney Edward A    Edmonton    3a   1113   

Monica

[snootycat]

Brilliant, you found the marriage for my Aunt Ada!!
As regards the Butter entries, I previously had that but it has people being born in the wrong place, not Scotland, so I have just had to change Margaret Vs details etc. I will have another look,
Thanks!!
Any help is greatly appreciated......

[snootycat]

I havent had time to look at it today but I remember last night struggling with the ages..............
I had Margaret B marrying Thomas B but then realised that the ages didnt work out, it was a bit difficult to follow. I will put the details up tomorrow if I have time. Perhaps I have a missing generation..........

[MonicaL]

Hi Pam

This looks like Margaret Violet's birth reg (all my references are on FreeBmd):

Births 1st Qrt 1890
Butler Margaret Violet - Shipston    6d   662   

Can't see the gaps on ages that you refer to, let me know where you think there may be one 

Monica

[snootycat]

Hi, well part of the mystery is solved there were two lots of Butlers, one in Govan....


I have apparently been in a circle
what I have now is  two Thomas Butlers.
One Thomas B Butler born around 1859 in Chipping Camden

who seems to have been married to Charlotte


I also have a Thomas Bryson Butler married to Margaret Thompson Reid born In Hutchestown Glasgow 1857

The difficulty I have with ages related to Margarets children, as according to my records she would have had some of them very young!!
Which made me think I had muddled up different generations. I havent had time yet to try to sort her children out.

Margaret V Butlers marriage certificate
says her father was Thomas BRIGHTON Butler, a newsagent! He was not a witness to the wedding, I had convinced myself he was a ne'er do well who had left his wife!! and someone had misspelt his name...a deaf registrar or something. It was a registry office wedding as she was 5 months pregnant with my mother....big scandal!

My family was, and still is very dysfunctional, through ancestry someone traced me and I found a nephew, who also has spent ages trying to find out who his relatives were as his mother refuses to discuss it! We are in secret communication, his in his 30s and I am 57!! I mean its ridiculous! Its not unreasonable to want to know if you have any relatives. 
I will relook at the wedding cert as a Sheppard is a witness so will see if I can see that person anywhere.

[snootycat]

The witness was R J Sheppard.

[MonicaL]

Hi Pam

Not often you and I have been on together at the same time  I think you are getting into a pickle with names and dates on the early stuff  Let me try and do a summary of where I think we are with the Scottish records and the earlier English ones...back on a moment...!

Monica

[MonicaL]

From the information you posted earlier on and I added to:

1. We have a Margaret T Butler who shows as born in Glasgow between 1838-42. We have children showing to her and a Thomas Bryson Butler Snr. from 1857. Still to find her in 1861 census.

2. We have found a marriage between a Thomas Bryson Butler and a Margaret Thomson Reid in 1866 in Glasgow. If you viewed this certificate on Scotlands People it would give you some information on Thomas B Butler Snr. about who we know nothing about at this stage (age, occupation, his parents' names etc). We would also be able to confirm details about Margaret and verify what we are seeing regarding her in respect of age and hopefully find birth/family details for the two of them.

3. We have Margaret with the children in 1871, still no sign of husband Thomas in Clackmannanshire. Then Edinburgh for the 1881 census and London for the 1891 census.

4. We then have a Thomas Bryson Butler marrying a Charlotte Griffing in Marelybone London in 1888.
A Margaret Violet was born to this couple in 1890 and we have found a likely birth entry for her in Gloucestershire (which matches what we can see on the 1891 and 1901 censuses). In 1901, the family are living in Edmonton, where Margaret V. marries in 1910.

5. The age of Thomas Bryson Butler, husband of Charlotte, matches the age (only a few years out which is not unusual) of the Thomas born in Glasgow in 1857 to parents Thomas Bryson Butler Snr. and Margaret T Reid. The only mistake I can see on the 1901 census is that place of birth for Charlotte and Thomas has been entered the wrong way round - Charlotte is showing Scotland and Thomas is showing Camden, Gloucestershire. I think this is simply an error, and the info is correct on the 1891 census. You might want to try and find Thomas and Charlotte on the 1911 census for further info, including his occupation at that point (we have seen a couple of changes for him over the previous censuses).

6. At this stage, we have no info whatsoever on Thomas B Butler Snr. - can't see a death for him in Scotland when I looked. No idea whether he was actually born in Scotland, can't see him in the earlier censuses as yet in Scotland. Only that 1866 marriage cert will give you some info on him (and Margaret wife) at this stage.

Pam, I do think we have been following the generations in order and bar a few mistakes on the way info has been entered, everything that we have found so far does point to the right family for Margaret V (parents and paternal grandparents).

Where does the reference to Govan for Margaret come in?


Monica 

[snootycat]

Ah! Thomas Bryson born in Hutcheson was the son...........................

who then married Charlotte.


The witness was RJ Sheppard who I think was Ruby Jessie Sheppard born in Dec 1887 in Islington