Newton family of Hornchurch, Brentwood

[giuliana]

I wonder if this is Walter and big brother George in 1841?

High Street Whitechapel
George 25  N
Ann 20    Y
Walter 15   N

was George a coffee house keeper in later censuses?

According to other researches of Walter's ancestry George had kept a coffee house. I haven't confirmed any of this, though have found him in 1881 as a retired coffee house keeper.

The dates would be consistent for the Walter I'm looking for. Perhaps when he ran away from his parents' home he went to his older brother's when he wasn't at sea. (Makes sense.)

[lizdb]

In 1861 George is a coffee house keeper - still High Street Whitechapel, all children bn Whitechapel, so he remains very constant.
RG 9 270 85 6

George 49 coffee house keeper bn Hornchurch
Ann 43 bn Southwark
Mary Ann 17
William 16
Elizabeth 15
Louise 13
Emily 12
Frances 10
Thomas 8
Ann 6
John 4
Henry Robert 3
Ellen 8 mths

[lizdb]

As I happened to have 1861 open, here is ALfred -

RG9 34 128 36
'Royal Oak' Keppel St, Chelsea

Alfred 43 Licensed victualler bn Hornchurch
Mary Ann 37 bn Berks
Alfred 10
George 7
Walter 5
Amelia 3
Elizabeth 1    all children bn 'London Middx'

+ various barmen, servants etc

[lizdb]

Here is Alfred in 1851 - he was also a coffee house keeper!

HO107 1531 145 14
64 Grt Tower Str. Barking
Alfred 33 Coffee house keeper bn Hornchurch
Mary Ann bn Berks Windsor
Caroline Godfrey sister 22 unm bn Berks Windsor
Alfred Newton son 9mths bn London
+servants.

Looking at the places of birth I suspect Caroline Godfrey is Mary Ann's sister rather than Alfred.

Icant find Alfred's marriage to Mary Ann, I was hoping to.
Getting his marriage cert would be interresting to say what he said about his dads occuption - seeing as the censuses so far for dad have indicated he has independent funds, but not from where!

[lizdb]

To fill in a gap for George
1851
HO107 1545 316 6

still 126 High Street Whitechapel

George 39 Coffee house keeper bn Hornchurch
Ann 33 bn Southwark
Mary Ann 7
William 6
Eliza 3
Louisa 3
Emily 2
Frances 4 mths all children bn Whitechapel

+ barmen, servants etc

[lizdb]

I wonder if this is George senior's death?

Jan/Feb/Mar 1855
West Ham ref 4a 21
George Newton

Unfortunately it is before ages are in the index.

If so (and you would need the cert to see) then it would be an idea to look for a will for him. If he was living off some sort of income or property then he is liokely to have left one, and also likely that he will mention his sons in it.

[giuliana]

Thanks for all these "gems", Liz. The overnight elves have done very well

Getting a will for George could provide valuable info, I agree. I'm thinking there must be a lot more children than just the 4 sons I know about (George, Alfred, Charles and Walter) given the usual size of families back then (incl at least George's, Alfred's and Walter's in their generation - don't know about Charles yet). I suppose there are parish records that could prove useful. Would that be your recommendation?

I'll have to try to find out more about the Newell side of the family too. (Perhaps that's where the money came from?!)  I have a hunch that I might find out how Walter came to Australia by following the Newells back a bit. There is a Mr W Newton who arrived in Australia from the US (San Francisco via Hawaii) on the "Vaquero" (Captain FA Newell) in abt 1858 - he was an "unassisted immigrant" i.e. passenger, not crew. There are also a couple of other possibilities but this "Newell" connection is getting me in for now.

Thanks again for your lookups! RootsChatters provide a great service!

[giuliana]

I have found reference to a Captain James Newell sailing the brig "William" between Liverpool, Eng and Prince Edward Is, Canada in 1826 and 1830. This is in addition to the Captain Francis Ames Newell (US-born) who sailed the "Vaquero" between San Francisco and Hawaii and sometimes on to Australia (directly or via Hong Kong) in the mid 1850s.

There are also lots of Newells and Newtons referred to in various trade directories etc. for Essex in the 1800s that could prove useful - too many names to mention here.

I guess this gives me some clues as to researching the Newell side of things.