1901/1891 census

[welshspencer]

Hi all

Please could someone kindly look up a Joshua Lovell born Cardiff 1888 in the 1901 and 1891 census in 1901 the family were proberly living in Canton.

Kind Regards

Russell

[CaroleW]

1901 for 27 Harvey St Canton - all children b Cardiff 

Henry Lovell 39  knife grinder b Cinderford Gloucester
Ellen  33  b Cheltenham Gloucs
Joshua  13 
Susannah 10 
Lementina 8 
William 5 
Henry   4 
Windsor Gibbs 50  visitor b Glamorgan Cadoylan??  umberella maker
Anne Gibbs 46  visitor b Merthyr
RG13 Piece 4986 Folio 16 Page 24

[CaroleW]

Not easy to find in 1891 - 30 Daisy St Canton

Harry Lovell 35 carter b Cardiff
Helen 25 b Cheltenham
Daughter aged 5 b Bridgend but cannot decipher christian name.  It is indexed as Vincas!!
John 3
Susan 5 months
Windsor Gibbs 40 boarder
Ann Gibbs 35 boarder
RG12 Piece 4399 Folio 130 Page 46

[CaroleW]

There is a "Conation" Lovell on the 1901 b Cardiff working as a servant.  Taking the exotic Lementina into account this could be the indecipherable daughter

Births March qtr 1886 
 
Carnation LOVELL       Bridgend  11a 657

[welshspencer]

Thank you carole

Yes they seem to have Henry as Harry,and born cardiff instead of Glous, and his age at 39 in 1901 and 35 in 1891,  Ellen ans Helen and Joshua as John

I believe the family were romania gypsies

Kind Regards

Russell

[KRMMT]

I have a Henry in my tree, son of Frederick Lovell and Carnation Lovell. In the 1871 Wales Census, Monmouthshire, Mynyddislwyn, District 2. Henry is listed with the family. "Mary Level" is Carnation.

Mary Level   46
John Level           16
Henry Level   17
Llewellyn Level   26
Limitman Level   6
Athur Level   3
Lavania Level   14

[welshspencer]

Hi Krmmt

I was wondering if this Henry was the son of Frederick and Carnation?

but the 1901 census has him born in 1862, The 1891 has him aged 35, which would put him at 1856, but i thought  it should read 25? which would but him at 1866,  and your 1871 would put his birth year at 1854.

So unless its the 1901 census that has the wrong age and not the 1891, as i thought. that would make it close. it would not be the same  Henry, but Henry called two of his daughters Carnation and Lementina so there has to be a close link somewhere?


I found this on Welsh Gypsy site
Frederick married Carnation Lovell and travelled at fist around his wife's North Wales, often accompanied by Bui Boswell, Later on they moved south. The had ten children, including William, John Arthur, Henry, Oli, sabaina, lementina and Syrenda:, sons Llewelyn and Josh emigrated on to the States

[KRMMT]

Hi Russell,

I wouldn't take the ages given in the census as always correct. I've seen wide age spreads given from decade to decade. It's probable that Henry didn't really know his age.  For instance, Henry's sister Lementina was born on 8 April 1864 based on her birth certificate Newport, Glamorgan, Wales. Contrary to a Gypsy Lore Society article, Lementina married David Boswell (not Albert Boswell) and immigrated to the US in 1888. Listed below are her ages/year of birth up to her death.

1871 Census Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Wales
Limitman Level
Age:   6
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1865

Home in 1900:   Chicago Ward 29, Cook, Illinois
Terry Baswell (Tina)
Age:   31
Birth Year:   June 1868


Home in 1910:   Petersburg, Menard, Illinois
Tina Boswell
Age in 1910:   41
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1869


Home in 1920:   Joliet, Will, Illinois
Tena Boswell
Age:   55 years
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1865


Home in 1930:   Joliet, Will, Illinois
Teenie Boswell
Age:   64
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1866

Lementina died in 1945, on her death certificate, her d.o.b. is December 15, 1868.

-Roger

[welshspencer]

Thank you Krmmt

So he must have been near 49ish  in the 1901 census?


cant find them in the 1881 census. so would you say it would be safe to say that this henry in the 1891 censu and the 1901 census is the son of Fred and Carnation?