Who was Jane ? (Westmorland and Southwark)

[ShaunJ]

Can anyone help me identify this ancestor of my wife ?

Her name is Jane. Here is what I know:

She was born Wath, Westmorland circa 1777 per 1861 census (in 1851 it’s not quite as precise – birthplace “Appleby”).  Wath is a small hamlet in Ravenstonedale. 

Jane married John Oliver circa 1800. Where and when did they marry? Where was John Oliver from?  They had a son William who was born in 1802 in Christ Church parish, Southwark.

John and Jane are publicans at the Hop Pole, William Street, Blackfriars Road, London in 1808. John died in 1811 and Jane subsequently marries William Folder who has taken over the licence of the Hop Pole. But where and when did they marry?

William Folder and his siblings are from Little Musgrave in Crosby Garrett parish, Westmorland. Baptised at Crosby Garrett church.

Circa 1820 the Folders move to Bermondsey and take over the Crown in Spa Road.

William died in 1836, by which time the tenancy of the Crown has passed to Jane’s son William Oliver.

Jane died in November 1865 at the Licensed Victuallers’ Asylum aged 88.

But who was she before she was an Oliver?

[Sandymc47]

Hi Shaun

Think I might have found your Jane.  I have a Jane Wrangham born 12th September 1779 at Barnard Castle, Durham which was classed as Westmoreland in those days.
She married a John Oliver on 13th September 1795 , so very young with a day after her 16th birthday, at St Marys, Whitechapel, London which is just across the river Thames from Southwark where you said her son was born.
She could have been in service in London or even staying with family.
The only John Oliver born in London around that time was a John born on 18th July 1774 at Swallow Scotch Street Church in Westminster and his parents were a James and Jean.

Hope these our your family.  Have to go out now so cant do any more research for you

regards
Sandymc

[ShaunJ]

Thanks Sandy that is certainly one of the possibles in the IGI. I don't know the area but Barnard Castle seems slightly out of the area that I'm looking in (but I suppose she could have been born at Wath and baptised at Barnard Castle a couple of years later).

The other John Oliver/ Jane marriage that jumps out of the IGI is the one in St Geo Hanover Square in October 1798 to Jane Shaw. There are lots of Shaws around Ravenstonedale.

There was a John Oliver baptised at Brough under Stainmore in January 1778 - another possible from that area around Kirkby Stephen.

[sillgen]

I think there is another Wath in that area too.  You see it off the A1 as you drive up.  I always note it as my mother was once sent to Wath to recuperate from measles and I never knew which one it was!  Probably not the right one but just a thought!
Not brilliant coverage on the IGI for that area.

Andrea

[ShaunJ]

There's a thought Andrea. In the 1851 census she said she was born Appleby which I have taken as a generic reference to the North of Westmorland, the barony of Appleby or to the nearest city Appleby which was the county seat of Westmorland back then.  Not the Wath near the A1 but there may be other Waths in the vicinity of Appleby.

[ShaunJ]

 

I have a Jane Wrangham born 12th September 1779 at Barnard Castle, Durham which was classed as Westmoreland in those days.
She married a John Oliver on 13th September 1795

I've just been looking at that marriage - according to the register,  Jane Wrangham was a widow when she married John Oliver.. so unlikely to be the one born 1779 at Barnard Castle.

[Brie]

Hi,

My mother has just checked the Ravenstonedale registers from the end of 1773 and couldn't find Jane. She said the nearest Jane she could see was born 1787. Also checked the Non-Conformists registers.

The nearest market town for Wath, Ravenstonedale would be Kirkby Stephen rather than Appleby. Could Wath be a farm name, part of a longer name or an area name in or around Appleby? Wath appears in place names such as Sandwath (a local farm) Mazon Wath etc.

If we think of anything else I'll get back to you.

Brie

[ShaunJ]

Thanks Brie.

I've now found Jane's second marriage but no clues there. She married William Folder on 24 November 1812 at St Mary Newington. Witnesses were Samuel  and Elizabeth Hawgood. No father's names recorded.

[ShaunJ]

There was a marriage at St George Hanover Square on 9 October 1798 between a John Oliver and a Jane Shaw...and there was a Jane Shaw baptised in 1779 in Kendal (Presbyterian)...another possibility!