Parents of Leonora RANDOLPH

[lustremounter]

Hello Jo,
   I followed up the George MURRAY/Mary RANDOLPH  lead in reply #8 of 8th June, by buying the Marr. Cert. of George MURRAY/ Eliza Clara RANDOLPH of 23 Aug. 1848 at Camberwell.
  Eliza Clara's father was John James RANDOLPH, Barrister.  George MURRAY is a Gentleman, son of John Joseph MURRAY, Gentleman.

  In 1851 Mary RANDOLPH of Bath is a widow, which ties in with FreeBMD having a death of John James RANDOLPH in 1845 ¾  at Lewisham.
But why is Eliza's father not shown as deceased in the marriage of 1848?
It seems unlikely that Henry RANDOLPH would have not included 'John' in his father's name at marriage in 1837.

  This adds yet another RANDOLPH lawyer to the plot.

The neighbours of George and Clara MURRAY in 1851 don't seem appropriate for the children of a Gentleman and a Barrister.  Have I got something wrong here?

Bob.

[Jo Harding]

Hello again Bob,

I am getting to grips with this after a while away from it. I think I need to write down all the details so far in order to refresh myself.

I am approaching it from a new perspective as quite a few of the old Directories are online now. This might be the way forward, or at least to gather more information on the various Randolph families.

I found an entry in the 1856 Post Office London Directory for John James Randolph at 72 Harley Street, London. The details give other Randolph names at that address as follows:

Rev Thomas Randolph
Gower William Randolph Esq.

It is not clear if this is a residence, or professional premises. The area, then as now, comprised the consulting rooms of the professions such as doctors and lawyers.

An 1851 Post Office Commercial Director shows John James Randolph, barrister, at 24, Old Square, Lincoln's Inn. He is there in an 1856 Commercial Directory also.

The James Randolph , solicitor of Milverton is shown in the 1839 Robson's Directory of Somerset. He is in other Somerset Directories, such as Pigot's for 1839 and 1842. This is as a solicitor in Milverton.

I have found a baptism for John James Randolph in 11/12/1816, Mortlake Surrey.

The indications are that these are different families. That Eleanora Randolph and Leonora Penelope Randolph are 2 different people.

Jo.

[heywood]

Hello,
I looked at that last night re John James Randolph.  In 1841, I think he is possibly a Fellow at Merton College Oxford and if I recall 1851 has him born Surrey.
He therefore, though, cannot be the one who dies in 1845 in Lewisham.
I cannot see Mary (the widow from 1851 b Bath) in 1841  nor Eliza Clara.
Then I couldn't see George Murray or Eliza Clara in 1861 either 

Bob,
have you tried directories/ parish records in Bath or Walcot?

best wishes
heywood

National Archives has a few wills re Randolph, Bath but they are in early 1800s.

[heywood]

Hi Bob,

who were the witnesses at the Murray wedding please? do they provide any clues?

heywood

[lustremounter]

Hi again,

The Harley Street RANDOLPH is an interesting link.  In 1881 William and Penelope were at 119 Harley Street.  William was 'beyond work' and they were the only occupants of a large house.
My conjecture was that they were 'house sitting' for Henry RANDOLPH who was a House Agent in earlier censuses. I now wonder if it was the home or office of a RANDOLPH solicitor.
The complete movements of William and Leonora STANDEN are on my website, except that they seem to have avoided the 1851 census.
In 1999 Westminster Library searched the Kelley's Directory for me and found, re 119 Harley Street,
  1878 occupied by  Sir Spiridon Valaority KCMG.
  1879 & 1880  not listed
  1881 listed as 'unoccupied', but the STANDENs were there on Census night.
  1882 occupied by Charles Edward Healy-Chadwick, Barrister, who was still there in 1891. His maid Mary STANDEN of Croydon is not a known relative.


Eleanora or Leonora ?
   The only links are that they both have a father James RANDOLPH.
Eleanora bapt. 27 May 1821 at Walcot, Bath.
Leonora's ages in Census all relate to a birth at Bath in 1821.
Leonora does not give Walcot as her place of birth, only Bath.
   If they are 2 different people that would link Leonora to Henry as both their births/bapts. are not found, but are alleged to be in Bath with a father James RANDOLPH.

The witnesses to the marriage of George MURRAY by Licence in 1848 are Richard Thimbleby and Marther Mitcham.  I don't recognize either.

FamilySearch has a Pedigree Resource File of Henry RANDOLPH's marriage in 1837.  I have been unable to contact the Submitter by post or 'phone.

Henry RANDOLPH's daughter Katherine Eliza was bapt. 1864 at St Mary Somerset, London. Her birth in 1840 is included in the IGI entry. She is bapt. in her maiden name although she was married in 1861 at St Pancras to (possibly) Robert James EVANS.   FreeBMD.  This sounds odd.
A Robert Henry EVANS is in FreeBMD births St Pancras 1862.


   I am looking again at the James RANDOLPH, gentleman and lawyer, of Virginia, USA, and Catherine St. BARBE.  There are gaps around the bapt. of the daughter, Christian St. Barbe RANDOLPH, in Walcot in1806.  However, most of the records are by LDS Members and un-sourced.


There are 3 possible James RANDOLPH - lawyer,  so far, :-

James RANDOLPH, solicitor, b. 1801, son of Rev. James RANDOLPH/Mary WETHEREL, of                  Milverton.
   He is too young to be the father of Henry b. 1817

   John James RANDOLPH, barrister, had a dau. b. 1829 at Bath.  Had a wife Mary b. ca. 1796 at Bath.
     Would Henry and Leonora miss out the 'John' as father on their marr. certs.?

(Sir?) James RANDOLPH, lawyer and gentleman, b. 1770 at Bristol. 
    Marr. Catherine St. BARBE   1798 at Blandford Forum and at Virginia USA.
Had dau.  Lady Mary ca. 1795 at Bristol and dau. Christian St. Barbe, chr. 1806 at Walcot.(FreeReg.)
 This family mostly entered in IGI by LDS Members.
 Henry had dau. Catherine Eliza and Leonora had dau. Eliza Kate.

Bob.

[heywood]

Hello Bob,

just saw this thread and thought you may be interested.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,387404.0/topicseen.html

heywood

[stow]

Hi Bob,

I have some information that will help to eliminate one James Randolph. James Randolph b 1770 Bristol m Catherine St Barbe 1798 at Blanford Forum Dorset. Catherine died in 1809 and James did not remarry.
James died 1835 at Wickwar Gloucestershire. I am still trying to find other children of this couple.

But as you can see, they are not the parents of Henry, Eleanora or Eliza (all born after 1809).

Hope this helps.

Leonie
Australia

[lustremounter]

Thanks Leonie for the up-date on the death of Catherine RANDOLPH in 1809.
That eliminates her husband James b. 1770.
The only possible now seems to be John James RANDOLPH, but I have doubts because of the 'John'.
However, I will keep digging.
Bob.

[avm228]

In case it helps, the Law List reveals the following:

1821

There was only one RANDOLPH in legal practice in the jurisdiction, namely "country attorney" James RANDOLPH in Bath.

1845

Counsel

John James RANDOLPH L[incoln's Inn] - called to the Bar 7 June 1844*

* The Times of 10 June 1844  confirms that among the calls to the Bar by Lincoln's Inn on 7 June was "John James Randolph, of Hadham, in the county of Hertford, Esq".

Country attornies

Beverley RANDOLPH - Bristol
Edward RANDOLPH - Exeter
James RANDOLPH - Milverton

1846

Counsel

John James RANDOLPH - details as before - now shown as a tenant at 24 Old Square (Lincoln's Inn)

Country attornies

Edward RANDOLPH - Exeter
James RANDOLPH - Milverton

1853

Counsel

John James RANDOLPH - 24 Old Square (as before)

Country attornies

Edward RANDOLPH - Bath
James RANDOLPH - Milverton
Beverley RANDOLPH - Yate, Gloucs

Anna