Author Topic: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth  (Read 2622 times)

Offline emp1603

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Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« on: Saturday 06 June 09 17:11 BST (UK) »
Can anyone help as I'm stuck.  I have my gt grandmother's birth certificate which shows she is born in 1881 in Devonport.  Her name is Esther Mary Blood.  Her mother is also Esther Mary and her father is James Henry Blood and is shown as a solder 1/13th regiment.  They live at 5 Granby Ope Stoke Damerel.  However the 1881 census shows the surname as Bendon.  I then obtained the marriage certificate of James and Esther in 1873.  This shows his occupation as a tailor and his father also James Blood as a tailor.  The marriage took place in Kent which is where Esther Mary (nee Shelley) came from.  This certificate shows he is full age (so 21yrs or older) Esther is still a minor.  But I cannot find any censuses which shows either of the James Blood as a tailor, so cannot find birth.  To make matters worse my gt grandmother's(Esther Mary b1881) marriage certificate shows her father's name as George Blood occupation Master Tailor.  Any ideas

Offline celia

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 07 June 09 00:06 BST (UK) »
Hello enp
Welcome to rootschat,I cannot help you with the census,but i had a look on the family search I.G.I
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/igi/search_IGI.asp

there was nothing on there either for the ancestors mentioned in Kent .However i did come across One only mention of a early record for a James Blood with a connection to Kent.To Early for yours but you never know ;) It is a submitted  so proceed with caution ;D

James Blood Born 3rd November 1673 Chelmsford Middlesex Massachusetts

Died 17th May Concord Horsmonden Kent England.
Spouse was Abigale Sheeler
They married  U.S.A in 1701 26th December.

Celia



Celia 1941-2010
~~~~~~~~~~~~


Rake Lane Burials

M.I.Merchant Marina's Rake Lane

FLORENCE JONES MARRIED JOHN GIBBON HIGNETT IN 1885

Offline jorose

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 07 June 09 02:01 BST (UK) »
By 1901 it seems that Esther was widowed (living in Lewisham with daughter Esther and another daughter, Rachel, b. Ireland).

If someone can access the 1891 for you, it seem kids Esther and Rachel are in one part of london and Esther the mother in another - no sign of the rest of the family.

It might be that James/George had changed his name around a bit (first son was George which might be a clue?). In 1873, what were the addresses/witness names?
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 07 June 09 04:08 BST (UK) »
For Ref:
MARRIAGE: Woolwich Kent 1873 - James BLOOD and Esther SHELLEY.
Groom listed as "full age" and son of James BLOOD, Tailor
Bride listed as a "Minor"

BIRTH: Esther Mary BLOOD - born  Mar Qtr 1881 in Stoke Damerel
Parents: Esther Mary nee SHELLEY and James Henry BLOOD, soldier 1/13thRegiment.
Address: 5 Granby Ope. Stoke Damerel ?

CENSUS 1881: At same address per 1881 Birth cert?  Surname is BENDON.
Noting the Census also ages daughter Esther as age 1. When in fact she must be ony about 1 month old.
RG11 /  Piece: 2209 /  Folio: 127 /  pg 50

The 1881 Census image, the surname could also be BLADON?  The enumerator's writing a bit messy!
It shows James "BENDON" as 28, Soldier b Newton Abbot, Devon.
His wife Esther M  is shown as 28, b Blackheath, Kent (1871 says Deptford?)
There are 2 other children born prior to Esther Mary in 1881:
George T? I? J?  in Portsmouth, Hants abt 1874 - maybe registered in Portmouth as George T BLOOD 1874
Charles H in Newton Abbot, Devon abt 1878  - registered in ?? as ?? can't find?

MARRIAGE: 1907 or 1910 - Lewisham - not sure which of the two is yours?
Cert says Esther Mary BLOOD, shows her father as George BLOOD, Master Tailor

1907: Esther Mary BLOOD to William EDWARDS or George Thomas PRATT (other bride Rosina MORRISS)
1910: Esther M BLOOD to Frederick FIDGETT or (other groom not listed but believe it is Joseph J WEBB listed on FreeBMD also but page number not clearly read) (other bride is Edith PICKETT) 1d 2300

1891: 96a Esplanade Terrace - Lewisham
Lodger: Esther M BLOOD 35, unmarried, Laundrymaid, b Lewisham Kent
On her own Schedule. The rest of the house at 96 Esplanade is occupied by the family of General labourer, David COLE b Essex( and his Sussex b wife Julia)

1891: North Surrey District School - Penge, London
Pauper Inmate: Esther BLOOD 8, b Lewisham Kent
RG12 /  Piece: 600 /  Folio 82 /  Page 4

1891: North Surrey District School - Penge, London
Pauper Inmate: Rachel  BLOOD 7, b Lewisham Kent
RG12 /  Piece: 600 /  Folio 82 /  Page 9

1901: 79 Brookdale Road, Lewisham
RG13 /  Piece: 553 /  Folio: 16 /  Page: 23
Esther M BLOOD 45, widow, Laundress, b Lewisham
On her own schedule, occupying 3 rooms at that address.
A family of GRAY (b Poplar and Surrey,  occupy 4 other rooms at same address)


1901: 6 Wearside Road - Lewisham
Servant: Esther BLOOD 20, single, general Servant Domestic, b Devonport, Devon
In household of Walter H THOMPSON and family
RG13 /  Piece: 554 /  Folio: 25 / Page: 2

1901: 140 Court Hill Road, LewishamServant: Rachel V BLOOD 17, single, b Ireland
in household of Chas B HALL & wife and their very large family! of 13 children!
RG13 /  Piece: 549 /  Folio: 122 /  Page: 6

Can't immediately see the two BLOOD brothers, George and Charles in 1891 or 1901.

Cheers
AMBLY

added:
So the 1910 marriage appears to be the mother, Esther Mary BLOOD nee SHELLEY marrying again?
Census 1911 indexes an Esther Mary WEBB in Lewisham age 55 (b abt 1856) who is living in Lewisham and was married in 1910. Her husband is Joseph James WEBB, same age.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)


Offline emp1603

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 07 June 09 10:26 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for your reply.  Most of the information you supplied fits in completely with my records and verification (i.e marriage/birth certificates).  The one piece of info you added also fits with a name on the marriage certificate of Esther Mary Blood to George Pratt (my gt grandfather).  The marriage is witnessed by a Clara Olivia Webb Blood. So it looks like Esther Mary senior did marry Joseph James Webb in 1910. 

When Esther & Rachel were in the North Surry School listed as paupers Charles is on vessels not sure if George is the 17 yr old in Nottingham.

When you mentioned Esther M Blood 1891 you say on her own schedule am I am to ask where you obtain this info from?  New to this so not sure if I can ask?

It is the birth certificate of James Blood I am trying to find and although the 1881 census says birth place Newton Abbot I haven't had any luck finding anything.  Same for one of the boys Charles.  Thanks for your time, much appreciated.

Offline emp1603

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 07 June 09 10:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Jorose
The marriage certificate only lists the addres as St Paul Charlton which is the parish.  The witnesses are S Wood and Alice Shelley, Esther's sister.  Thanks for trying to help.

Main piece I am searching or trying to, is the birth of James Blood because although 1881 census shows Newton Abbot as his birth place cannot find anything. Once again many thanks
Regards

Offline emp1603

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 07 June 09 10:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Celia
The only connection I can find with James Blood to Kent is his marriage to Esther Mary nee Shelley as she lived in the Lewisham/Blackheath area in Kent.  According to the 1881 census his birth place is Newton Abbot in Devon but cannot find anything.  His birth is circa 1852 going on censuses/marriage certificate.  Thanks for trying and if you do find anything would love to hear from you.
Regards
emp

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 07 June 09 13:37 BST (UK) »
Hi emp

A potted 'history.....
The information we see in the Census Enumerator's books - are taken from individual "Household Schedules" which were given to each householder just prior to Census night to fill in and to return to/be collected by the enumerator. Sometimes the enumerator, or a neighbour/friend etc would fill in the schedule if the householder was illiterate or was not at home to hand over the Schedule. Each Schedule in the enumerator's walk had a unique ID number. The Enumerator would then transcribe the information from the schedules into his book, the one we get to see (so, it's from this point that transcription errors, omission, misreads,  etc can occur!). We no longer have the actual schedules - they were destroyed.
Read more here:
http://www.censusuk.co.uk/history.htm

In the first column of the Census sheets in the Enumerator's books, is written the Hosuehold Schedule's number. This is how we know what  is a household. Often, multiple Households occupy one dwelling. Sometimes they are related. Sometime not. In theory, each household should be headed by a "Head of Household".

In the case of Esther M BLOOD snr in 1891 & 1901 she is in the same house as other people. In both cases she is on her own Schedule. She also does not appear to share any similarity with the families (which is why I checked the places of birth for the others - if either one of the couple heading the other family had been born in the same place as Esther, it may be a clue they were actually related).

In the 1891, Esther is listed as a lodger (even though, being alone on her own Schedule she should be a "Head"). This means she probably was Lodging with the principal tenants of the house but was unrelated to them.

In the 1901, Esther is listed as "Head" of her own schedule sharing what appears to be half a dwelling house with another family. I thought it odd, that she was occupying 3 rooms (this information, if occupying less than 5 rooms, is also provided in a column in the census) for this is quite a princely number of rooms considering she was apparently alone & clearly not a woman of any means at all (and the fact she was working as a Laundress supports that).

The reason is clear....it appears she was probably living with Mr WEBB a good few years before they got married - approx 16 or 17 years earlier at least by the looks of it. And the 3 rooms were probably occupied by she, he and their daughter Clara. Except that, on Census night 1901 he and Clara were elsewhere:

1901: 8 Scrooby Street, Lewisham,  London (Catford Ward)
 RG13 /  Piece: 553 /  Folio: 63 /  Page: 12
Head: Joseph WEBB 69, Housepainter, b Shoreditch
Wife: Clara O WEBB 69, b Hackney
Son: Joseph J WEBB 45, single, House Painter, b Hackney
Grandchild: Clara O WEBB 8, b Lewisham


With this information, I'd be wondering why wait until 1910 to marry - and could it be because the mysterious James BLOOD was known to be still alive until shortly before that time, or he was officially missing from approx 1903 (7 years before the re-marriage of Esther to Mr WEBB).

You say the son Charles H BLOOD  is on Vessels in 1891? Could ask what was listed as his place of birth?

BIRTH : Clara Olivia BLOOD - Lewisham - Jun Qtr 1893, 1d, pg 1138

Cheers
AMBLY

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline modem

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Re: Cannot find my gt gt grandfather's birth
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 07 June 09 17:43 BST (UK) »
Could he have been registered  under his mother's maiden name for some reason?