ALWAY and GREENLAND early 1800's

[kiwipom]

Hi Charlotte

Using www.freereg.org.uk  I can't find any other children for Richard and Mary, in fact none in or near Bath at all.
That's not to say there were none, perhaps the Registers are not transcribed for this source yet.

TonyE

[Rohan]

My Greenlands hail from Bath, but - mysteriously - appear to have been Udells, before leaving Bath in 1845 for Chelsea, where Abraham, Martha and their son, John, changed their surnames to Greenland.

I have been looking for a link between Abraham and Martha Udell and the small number of Greenlands in Bath around the 1830s.

Abraham and Martha - married at Bath Abbey in 1836, had a total of seven children, all of whom died in infancy with the exception of John, who appears to have been born out of wedlock.

There may be a link between Abraham Udell - a plaster/painter - and one family of Greenlands engaged in a similar trade in Bath the 1830s and 1840s.

Martha's maiden name was Hicks - she appears to have been born in nearby Marshfield (Glos), where there was a family of farmers named Greenland.

Abraham was born in nearby Frome to a family of weavers. There are Greenlands in Frome as well.

Any help in solving the Greenland/Udell connection would be REALLY welcome!

Regards

Rohan Greenland

[junepatrickdelaney]

I have looked at the 1841 census and believe the George listed is Edwin's brother and not his son; unless you know of another 20 month old Agricultural worker.

By the way were was Edwin's son George registered?.

My link is a bit tenuous George Parson Greenland's daugther Dorothy mares James John Wright in 1922 on the death of Ada Tryphina  [nee Whitburn]; my 1st cousin  twice removed.

[Liz in France]

Hi June,

Welcome to Rootschat.

You  have picked up on something we missed, although I don't think I looked it up.  George was 20 years old and a labourer and living with Edwin and Elin Greenland in St Woollos, Newport, as you point out.

The birth registration that I found for 'Boy son of Edward' Greenland with mmn as Alway was in Bath, district of Lyncombe & Widcombe.  This boy may have been George or even Edwin as that would match the death of an Edwin Greenland in 1838 Bath aged less than 1 year.  He was not with them in 1841 either.

Maybe George Greenland the mayor  was Edwin's little brother after all and not his son.  That's genealogy for you, full of surprises.

Elizabeth

[adamsky]

Hi all ,
I was browsing the internet by chance and came across these postings.
I believe that I am possibly descended from george greenland who was Mayor of Newport, Monmouthshire at the turn of the last century. I believe he owned Greenlands Laundry in Newport and also Greenlands Arcade in Newport town. I believe he had a son James who resided in pillgwelly in Newport in 1899 and was a master laundryman.His son Wiliam Alfred Greenland aged 24 (also a master laundryman) was married in Pillgwelly, Newport in 1899 to an Anne Maria Pearce 22.  I know little about the Greenland side of the family prior to this however. They had 3 Children, James, Zena and Phillipa. James was my grandfather and would have been born around  1908-9. Zena and Phillipa lived in Gloucester for most of their lives and died as spinsters.
I would be interested in hearing about any other information that anyone may know about my  family history.
Adam Greenland

[Liz in France]

Hi Adam,

Welcome to Rootschat, a great place for help on genealogy.

James William Greenland's birth was registered Newport 4th qtr 1907.  His siblings were Grace Irene reg.1/1902, she died 2/1913 aged 11.   Phyllis Mary 4/1904 or 2/1905, (probably the first one) and Zena reg. 1/1911 all at Newport.  He married Constance G Thomas 3/1933 Newport.

Their father was William Alfred Greenland a laundry proprietor born Dawley reg. 3/1875 Madeley, Shropshire. 
Their mother was Annie Maria Pearce birth reg. 1/1877 Newport.  Her sister Clarice was living with Annie and her family in 1911.  She was born 4/1885.

William Alfred Greenland married Annie Maria Pearce 3rd qtr 1899 Newport.

1881 William is with his grandparents Mark and Elizabeth Chappell in St Woollos.
William had many siblings including Agnes Emily c1874 Bilston Staffs, Florence Ada c 1877 Dawley, Clare Helen c 1879 Dawley, Alice Elizabeth c1881 Dawley, Gertrude Mary c1886 Dawley, James Edwin 1887 Newport and Beatrice Maud c 1890 Newport.

His parents were James Greenland and Elizabeth Emily Chappell who married 4/1872 Newport.

Back with the rest later, it's tea tiime.

Elizabeth

[adamsky]

Hi Elizabeth!
Thank you so much for your responce and I have to say that I'm truly Amazed!
James and Constance were my grandparents, they had 3 children, Jayne, Richard and Robert, My father was Richard.
I am absolutely fascinated at what you've told me so far. I have the original marriage certificate for William Alfred and Anne Maria Pearce on August 29th 1899 residing at Handsworth Street, Newport and it states his father as James Greenland.
I found a reference for James Edwin who was sadly killed in the first world war at the age of 33 on 28th August 1918 (ref Newports war dead)
I cant wait to hear about any other information you may have!
kind regards
Adam

[Liz in France]

Hi Adam,

Tea drunk and chickens fed so now I am ready to go again.

1881 census shows James and Elizabeth in Finger Road, Dawley, Shropshire with Agnes, Florence, Clara and Alice.  James is a Patt. nail machinist born Newport and Elizabeth was born Malmesbury, Wilts.

1871 census shows James living with his widowed mother Eleanor a housekeeper, in Newport.  She was born c1819 Bath Somerset.  Also there were siblings William born circa 1842 and Mary J born c 1850 Newport.

1861 census shows Ellen born 1818 Bath, a widow, George born c 1840 Bath, William 1843 born Pillgwenlly, Mary 1850 Newport, James 1852 Newport and Sarah 1854 Newport.

1851 census we have Eleanor's husband Edwin born c 1804 Keynsham, Somerset, a labourer, Ellen 1818 Bath, George 1840 Bath labourer, William 1843 Pillgwenlly and Mary J 1850 Newport.

1841 census at St Woollos we have Edwin 1815, Ellen 1821 and George 1821. All born outside county of Monmouthshire

That brings us back to the earlier postings which give useful  baptisms and marriage dates.

I will see what else I can find but if you have any specific questions please do ask.

A couple of useful sites apart from this one are http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search and http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/search  These will give you the civil registrations for birth, marriages and deaths and the church records for baptisms, marriages and burials although not all records are on the latter one yet.

Hope this gives you food for thought.

Best wishes,
Elizabeth

[Rohan]

Most interested to hear of the Newport Greenlands and their link with Bath. My Greenlands originated in Bath (Frome before that), but appear to have been Udells. My grandfather - however - James John Greenland (his father was James John Udall Greenland) said our family originated in Newport, Monmouthshire, but to date have found no link whatsoever. I suspect that he may have simply heard about the mayor in Newport and assumed that there was a link. However, there might still be a connection between my Bath Udell/Greenlands and the Bath Greenlands. Abraham Udell was a painter/labourer/plasterer and may - purely speculation - have worked with a family of Greenlands also active in this trade. The family of Udells appear to have changed their name when they left Bath for Chelsea in 1844 or early 1845. Very keen to hear from anyone who may have any further information, ideas, suggestions about solving this riddle!

Rohan James Greenland
Canberra