POULTER William (Stepney resident?) c. 1790

[RanR]

I have James Kinchin POULTER marrying Nellie WATTS in Surrey in the late 1890s.

James was the son of Thomas POULTER (born Bishops Castle, Shropshire in 1847) and his wife Martha WILD of Basingstoke, Hants.

Thomas POULTER was the son of Charles & Mary Ann POULTER (nee GOUGH) married 12/4/1840 at St. Peter's, Walworth in the parish of St. Mary's Newington, Surrey (I have the certificate).  Charles is described as being a minor while Mary Ann is of full age.  Both were previously unmarried at the time of the marriage, and both were living at 18c, Mount Street (wherever that was!).

Charles' father is given as William POULTER - a plumber, and Mary Ann's father is given as John GOUGH - a currier.  Bride and groom both signed and the witnesses were James BARMORE? (signature) & Mary LEWIS (signature).  Those witness names haven't meant anything to me so far.

Having done some census searching, I can confirm that in the 1851 census Charles POULTER was born c. 1821/2 in Stepney, Middx.  (I already knew that Mary Ann had been born in Bishop's Castle, Shropshire and have managed to get back for quite a few generations in her family.)

In the 1841 census in Mile End Old Town Lower District of Stepney parish (Tower Hamlets) Charles' father William POULTER (I'm pretty sure it's him because of the occupation of plumber) is recorded as being 50 years old, a plumber & not born in Middx.  He has a wife named Charlotte who is 35 years old and not born in Middx.

A brief IGI search seems to suggest that a William POULTER married a Charlotte PEACOCK 23/10/1831 at St. Nicholas, Guildford in Surrey (M109891).  I'm expecting him to have been a widower at the time of that marriage if it's the same person.

C055762 IGI has Charles POULTER born 3/4/1822 & christened 1/9/1822 at St. Dunstan, Stepney to William & Mary (and also a younger brother named James born 24/7/1824 & christened 27/3/1825 also at St. Dunstan, Stepney).

The only IGI record of any mariage of a William POULTER to anyone named anything remotely like Mary for the right time frame is found in M062612 with a William POULTER marrying a Maria HALL 11/5/1815 at St. Mary's Portsea, Hants.

Can anyone check the Stepney (St. Dunstan & other churches) baptism records for Charles POULTER & his brother James for me please?  I would be most grateful.  Maybe there are other children born in the area to this couple and maybe there is a marriage for them as even though the Maria HALL marriage in Hants is an ok date, there don't appear to be any other children born from 1815 onwards to them down there (or anywhere else for that matter) on IGI.  Maybe Maria HALL is not this William POULTER's Mary from the St. Dunstan records.

Any help with any of this would be very gratefully received.  I have to admit that I keep coming back to Rootschat for help as the members on Rootschat are so very helpful and time and again give really good and experienced advice and information.  Thank you for all the other times!

[Meliora]

Hello, RanR,

I have checked the Bapt. records for St Dunstan's Stepney for your Charles & James Poulter & can confirm their entries  as you say with William & Mary as parents.

Parents William & Mary Poulter

Charles Poulter   id no 5756,  entry no 689
Birth date   3rd Apr. 1822
Bapt date  1st Sept. 1822
Address  Mile End Old Town
father's occupation  Plumber & Glazier

James Poulter   id no 8421   entry no 214
Birth date 24 th July  1824
Bapr  date  27th Mar  1825
address  Mile End Old Town
father's occupation   Plumber.

Dates searched  St Dunstans Stepney
1730-1735
1746-1757
1757-1770
1798-1808
1808-1816
1816-1822
1822-1826
these were the only dates available in CD

No other children found for these parents., there was another family of Poulters, parents John & Elizabeth with 4 children , earler than the William & Mary, living in Polpar.  If you are interested in these I can send details.

Meliora

[RanR]

Thank you very much for these.  I'm really not sure about the John & Elizabeth connection.  They are names that don't seem to crop up very much in other generations of the family.  Like you, I had noticed them and Poplar & Mile End Old Town were close to each other.

I suppose that I'm coming around to say yes please, if you could send me the Poplar entries, I'd be very grateful for them.  It can be useful later when I'm looking at previous generations or they might be his brother & sister-in-law (maybe even his parents?!!).

I really need to find the marriage of William & Mary now.  Maybe there is something in some burial records somewhere to give any hints as to her age/maiden name.  Any suggestions where to start (especially if she did die so that William could marryagain - possibly this Charlotte Peacock in Guildford in 1831)?

Thanks for your help with this.  Any ideas woudl be very gratefully received.  I'm still abit of a newbie when it comes to London records.

[Meliora]

Parents
John & Elizabeth Poulter
children bapt at St Dunstans, Stepney

Sussanah    id no 7945  entry no 0
Birth 2nd Oct 1808
bapt  2nd June 1811
Poplar
father's occ.  Labr.

Maria   id no 7942  enrty no0
birth  27th Mar. 1811
bapt. 2nd June 1811
Poplar
father's occ.  Labr

William Thomas  id no 9283  entry no0
birth  21st Jan  1813
bapt  7th Feb  1813
Poplar
father's occ. Labourer

Sarah   id no 11664  entry no 0
birth 27th Oct. 1815
bapt. 24th Nov 1815
Poplar
father's occ. Potash maker.

I have been looking at the age you give for William in the 1841 census, age 50 could mean he could have been between 50 & 54 as ages in the 1841 were rounded down to thenearest 5.  Therefore he could have been born between 1787 & 1791.  You  have foundmarriage for a William to a Maria Hall, 11th May 1815 St Marys Portsea, Hants.  I looked forr any children born to this couple in that area as well but found none, nut it does seem a long time between the marriage date & the sons born in St Dunstans Stepney.
I took this a step backwards looking for a birth/bapt for a William in the Hants area circa 1787-1791 & found this one.

William Poulter
bapr. 19th Feb 1790 Holy Trintiy Gosport Hants
father    William   mother  Ann

I also looked for a birth /bapt for a Maria Hall around the same date & found this one.

Mary Ann Hall
bapt. 11th Aug,  St Marys Portsea Hants
father   James   mother Elizabeth

I triesd to tie in whether your William was a brother to the James shown first above but with no success., but you will notice that some of the names are re-occuring.

Sorry , will have to close now, PC is becoming erratic, jumping all over the place,needs to lie down in a darkened room for a while I think, like me, sorry for any odd spelling mistakes etc.

Meliora

[RanR]

Lovely, thank you. 

I especially like the fact that Maria HALL had a father named James (like Charles POULTER's younger brother maybe?).  But why would they call the older (or even elder!) of the two boys 'Charles'?  There wasn't even a King Charles at the time!

Can I ask you to give me the year of Maria HALL's baptism in Portsea (or did I miss reading it in your reply?)?

Then I decided to have a look into this John POULTER that you kindly provided the baptism dates of his children for me.  Maybe he was a brother to William. There is one marriage of a John POULTER to an Elizabeth HUNT on IGI batch numbers for Sevenoaks, Kent in 1808.  Possible - and some more earlier ones for Essex (although the ones in Sible Headingham in 1791 seem a bit too far north in Essex for my liking really).  The census returns don't give anything conclusive (ie.  I can't be sure that I've actually found the right people).

Looking for his birth is just as fruitless so I'm drawing a blank on that possibility of being a clue to help with William (although I like the fact that John called his son William Thomas POULTER).

So there we have it for the time being.  Unless anyone can find another marriage for a William POULTER & a Mary for the right kind of time period (up to 1822 for a very few years before) and preferably in the London area, I'll have to leave it for the moment.  Of course it may well have taken place elsewhere as it says in the 1841 census that he wasn't born in Middlesex (but he could have been born in the London part of Surrey which is not far away at all).

Thanks very much indeed for all of this information and for your efforts in trying to help me with this.  My brain has turned to mush now (partly because I've been transcribing the 1700 - 1718 parts of the Langley Burrell (Wilts) parish records and am fed up with the handwriting!!) so I'll give it a rest for the night.  Who knows, maybe fresh ideas will come with the morning!

[Meliora]

Sorry, Ran

The year of Mary Ann Hall's bapt. was 1793.

I have just found another bapt in St Mary Portsea, Hants for a  Mary Hall, 28th Sept. 1793, father Henry, mother Catharine.

I do feel that there should be, somewhere, previous children for William & Mary Poulter before the Charles & James that were born in MEOT Stepney, as if it is the correct marriage for Charles to Mary Ann or Mary Hall 1815 Portsea, Charles would have been 25 years of age & 31 when Charles was born, according to the age on the 1841 census 50-54.  I did do an"all counties" in the IGI for any children but the PC was playing up & I abandoned it.

Silly PC is still being jumpy, a visit to the PC doctor is called for I think.

Good luck with our search.

Meliora

[sue.wright14]

Hi
I'm a descendant of Charles Poulter bap 1822 Stepney and have the following information. William Poulter was married to Mary Baker on 2 July 1821 at St Dunstan's Stepney. I believe he only had two children Charles and James by her. In 1837 William married Charlotte Readings (Reddings) at Whitechapel and it is she that is listed on the 1841 cansus. (William's signature is the same on both marriage documents). As yet I have been able to find any evidence that William and Mary divorced and it is likely the second marriage was bigamous. William and Charlotte moved to Stratford where he died on 25 Dec 1843. He left a will showing he had two sons, John and George, by a previous marriage to Elizabeth- his first wife. But Charles and James were not mentioned and evidence shows Mary contested the will as William's relic (not ex wife).  Two previous marriages have been found for a William Poulter marrying an Elizabeth - Mills in 1808 Whitechapel and Creasey in 1812 in Whitechapel. Both were witnessed by Peter Poulter who I believe is William's brother but I'm  in the process of doing more research on this. I also believe that William and Peter originally came from Lilley in Hertfordshire. This would tie in with William's birth year (1787), his father's occupation - baker - and extensive research done by the Herts. Poulters. By the way James Poulter emigrated to Australia and it is his descendant, Julie Poulter,  who has worked me with this research.

Hope this all helps.

[sue.wright14]

Hi my previous message should read "I am unable to find....". Also James Barmore who witnesses Charles marriage also witnesses the will of John Poulter, his older half brother. Like you I have not found out whether he is just a friend of the family or a relative.

Cheers

[RanR]

Wow!  Thank you so much for posting this message and for all of its information.  How very interesting. 

I should point out that this is my husband's/children's family rather than my own (for you & Julie Poulter's place in the family tree).

So there is no apparent record of Mary's death at all?  I know that death records can be hard to find (I received some wonderful help from the Kensal Green cemetery in London recently and it unlocked quite a bit or previously unavailable information for me).  Are you aware that the later generations settled in the Basingstoke and Leatherhead areas?  There are a few of the Poulters buried in St. Mary's Leatherhead churchyard.  I did a tramp around there one day and found a few headstones.

How about this Elizabeth's death?  Any luck with that at all?  I was trying to read between the lines a bit and made the far too ridiculous leap that maybe William had 3 wives on the go!  The fact that he ackowledges the children of Elizabeth in his will makes me wonder if maybe she did die before his marriage to Mary (so he felt able to mention them without fearing the legal implications).

I'm sorry to seem a bit daft but the difference between a 'relic' and an 'ex-wife' would be that the 'relic' was his widow?  Is that the case?  So is Mary saying that she should have inherited as she was his legal widow and not Charlotte (who was an unlawful wife)?

I am very impressed with all the research that you have already done on this between you all and if I can help in anyway, please let me know (although I don't think I'll be of much use judging by what you've all accomplished already).

Charles Poulter was my husband's 3x gt grandfather if that helps you to work out any relationship between you.  If you would like more detailed information about that and some of the family now, the please send me a personal message at some point.  It woudl also be interesting to know how you fit into the famkly from the Charles generation.  If you are willing to share more specific information about all of this and your research then I can give you my e-mail address via a personal message if you'd like it.

Have you managed to get anywhere with the Shropshire side of the family (Gough, Bywater etc)?  I'll be happy to let you know what I've found if it helps (although it's nothing very exciting and mainly IGI - Batch numbers were possible- based).

Thanks again for making contact and for your help with this.