Author Topic: a right hERBERT  (Read 3121 times)

Offline samatk

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a right hERBERT
« on: Monday 22 June 09 20:13 BST (UK) »
am trying to nail down one Herbert Atkinson who, in 1895 married a Harriet Picken whilst they both lived in Denaby Main, Yorkshire.  Got the marriage certificate in attempt to locate Herbert's dad.  But the space for his dad is filled in by lines so he's probably illegitimate.  I am now trying to trace his mum.  in 1901 and 1911  census herbert states he was born in Barnsly, Yorks in either 1872 or 1873.  There is a Herbert Atkinson born dec 1872 in barnsley found in the bmd records...not been able to find him in 1881 census yet...
so far have not been able to find him in 1891 either...

any ideas???
Phillips, Williams, Wells, Freeman, Yates, Butterworth

Offline bikermickau

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #1 on: Monday 22 June 09 20:21 BST (UK) »
did you check the Herbert Atkinson b abt 1870 son of John and Hannah 1881 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
Piece: 4601; Folio: 4; Page: 1

Whats the Ref no for 1901?
Jeffs - Northamptonshire to Leicestershire to Queensland, Australia
Lewis - Wales to Gloucestershire to NSW & Queensland, Australia
Iddols & Baylis - Gloucestershire
Mary Jones, daughter of James Jones and Eliza - born abt 1864 Staffordshire, died 1948 Queensland, Australia
Dorans - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Ralph - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Jillett - Robert, Transported Convict from Surrey
Christison - Edinburgh,Scotland
Cameron - Edinburgh, Scotland

Offline samatk

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #2 on: Monday 22 June 09 20:36 BST (UK) »
hi

had come across that one, yes, but if Herbert knew who his dad was, why didn't he put his name etc in the marriage certificate ? Re 1901 reference is...

Class: RG13; Piece: 4308; Folio: 106; Page: 46
Phillips, Williams, Wells, Freeman, Yates, Butterworth

Offline bikermickau

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #3 on: Monday 22 June 09 21:17 BST (UK) »
Found that Herbert again in 1871 Census aged 1
And as there is a Herbert b-1869 last q in Barnsley, I agree thats most likely not him.

Jeffs - Northamptonshire to Leicestershire to Queensland, Australia
Lewis - Wales to Gloucestershire to NSW & Queensland, Australia
Iddols & Baylis - Gloucestershire
Mary Jones, daughter of James Jones and Eliza - born abt 1864 Staffordshire, died 1948 Queensland, Australia
Dorans - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Ralph - Ireland to Scotland to Queensland, Australia
Jillett - Robert, Transported Convict from Surrey
Christison - Edinburgh,Scotland
Cameron - Edinburgh, Scotland


Offline samatk

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #4 on: Monday 22 June 09 21:51 BST (UK) »
hmmm....so we know who Herbert ain't...now all we've got to do is find who he IS...argh....he's the great gt grandad of my husband....might have known the in-laws would  cause me trouble!  Any ideas ?
Phillips, Williams, Wells, Freeman, Yates, Butterworth

Online dobfarm

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #5 on: Friday 17 July 09 20:26 BST (UK) »
Hi

He would be with his mother in 1881c age 9- and could be with her 1891c- age 19-reason maybe  his mother did want him using the father name but after reaching adult age 21 used his fathers name.

All may come to fruit with his birth certificate you sent for. 1872

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline jorose

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 18 July 09 01:03 BST (UK) »
On the marriage certificate, what were the names of the witnesses?

I note that the 1872 birth certificate has under the same reference both Herbert Amot and Herbert Atkinson listed.

In Barnsley, the surname Amot/Amott:

Herbert Amot, b. Dec 1872 Barnsley (aka Herbert Atkinson?)
Thomas Amott m. possibly Jane Atkinson, Mar 1874 Barnsley
Hannah Amot, b. 1874
Mary Ellen Amott, b. 1876
Thomas Amott, b. 1879

They then seem to have ended up in Doncaster district where marriages for Hannah, Mary Ellen, and Tom are found under the Amot(t) name.

In 1881 they are mistranscribed as Arnott and living in Worsbrough. There are both Atkinson and Arnott(Amott) children in the household; it appears that Jane was older, had been previously married, and Herbert may have been born after her first husband's death but before she married Thomas.

In 1871 Jane and children are with her husband Benjamin Atkinson.  He died Sep 1871 quarter; i.e. he could not have been Herbert's father.

Benjamin Atkinson m. Jane Rodgers in 1862; in 1871 she also had with her a 13 year old son Fred Rodgers.

In 1861 they are listed as living together as husband and wife - several other Atkinson children (probably from another marriage of Benjamin's?), and "Alfred" Rodgers aged 2 are in the household, as is a son of Benjamin and Jane's, Paul.

So it appears that Jane either had a marriage before Benjamin or had an illegitimate child Alfred/Fred in about 1859, was living with Benjamin by 1861 (son Paul registered as Paul Atkinson Rodgers), married him the next year, he dies in 1871 and she soon is with Thomas Amott (the most likely candidate for Herbert's real father), then marries him and has a few more kids (they are together up until the 1911 census!).
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online dobfarm

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 18 July 09 08:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Joe rose

 Though it maybe the case.
Just hope the poster get notification? as some  members have not had any sent lately.

Very good find..........

Dobby
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Any transcription of information does not identify or prove anything.
Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline samatk

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Re: a right hERBERT
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 19 July 09 21:17 BST (UK) »
well I just got hold of a copy of Herbert's birth cert and it shows a Thomas Amot named as dad.  well done JoRose!
Phillips, Williams, Wells, Freeman, Yates, Butterworth