Help with place name on census

[Gadget]

It might be worth a search on the Gazeteer:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geogdata/ngw/places.htm

I've checked the Ls for Pembroke and Brecon only and come up with these two places (thinking about the phonetic to written interpretation!)

Lewiston, Pembroke
Llyswen, Breckon

It could still be a variety of starting letters so 



Gadget

[DEVIS]

Hi,
Hope you don`t mind me pushing my nose in

But could this be a birth for William SHEEN ?

June 1864 11b Buith. Which spans BRECON/Powys/Radnor.

Devis

[alpinecottage]

Just done a long reply that's disappeared into cyberspace 

I accept my theory has shortcomings, but look at the facts - Joanna changes her name to Angeline, her father is a blind copper miner, her birthplace changes with each census, the surname spelling is all over the place, Edward disappears without trace - my theory is positively watertight in comparison 

But joking aside, I still think a second marriage may be the clue, and my tactic would be to look at the 3 John Shea marriages, in Merthyr in 1864 and 1865 and Swansea in 1971 and try to work out who they were from the 1871 census. 

Must go and do some jobs now , bye

[mothball]

Hello All

A big thank you once again, yes Devis, that is a possibility too.   Gadget, I looked into the areas for 1861 Brecon areas and Llanelieu comes up too.

Don't ask why but I've totally forgotten about a piece of oral history that came down and which I'll copy below.  I think Alpine is on the right tracks.

“Joanna’s mother was a maid in a large wealthy household in Ireland. The owners son married her against his father’s wishes & was disinherited. As a result they went to live in Pembroke.

Although well educated, he became a coal miner & died young, of TB, leaving his wife with 1 daughter, Johanna. It is thought his widow became a nurse.

Johanna then married a guardsman – John. She left him when she was 3 months pregnant, after finding out he had been unfaithful with a prostitute.

Johanna then had an affair with a jeweller (Howells). His family still had a jewellers shop in The Five Arches, Tenby, until the mid 1990’s. Edith, James & Florence O’Shea were the result. 

Johanna later married John Horgan, a widower with grown up children.”

A lot of this turns out to be true.   Joanna/Angelina married a soldier called James Sullivan and they had a three Sullivan children, James who's father is on the birth cert, but with Florence and Edith the father's name is left empty.   But Edith has a middle name of Tracy which was in fact the Jewellers.

I have been looking this morning for a widowed Mary c1825 born in Ireland with a child Joanna c1855 and found the following, but the surname is a nonsense name again!

RG9 P 4054 F41 Page 15   Everything more or less fits except the surname.

Complicated, sorry

Steven

[Gadget]

I also found a Joanna in Merthyr on the 1861:

RG9/4057 F 48 P 3

Not much fits except the name and age.

So, you're looking for a widow, b. Ireland,  who was a nurse and had a daughter, Joanna/Angeline/alternative b.c. 1856 in possibly Pembrokeshire or Ireland or .............   and a death of a possible John Shea/O'Shea at some point after 1856-7

Whereas the last part of the story, relating to Joanna's marriages, etc. have been substatiated by your findings, the first parts haven't.

We have a private soldier in 1861 called John but, according to the story, he died and therefore Catherine would have become the nurse.

We have a John Sheer in 1871 who was a miner with a wife Mary and daughter Joanna.

If the 1871 one is correct, I don't think that  the 1861 one is them.

Is Joanna's age consistent throughout the censuses?


Gadget

[Gadget]

There is a death of a John Oshea , June q, 1859, Haverfordwest, vol 11a p 477

No others in the 1860 +/- 5 in Wales that I can see.

If this his him then neither the 1861 or 1871 that we've found would fit!


Gadget

Added - this is the only John Shea/Oshea who died in Pembroke 1856-1871  - one  in Newport (1870) and Bedwellty (1866) and Merthyr (1866) but all too young to have been her father - b. 1840s/50s

[mothball]

Hello Gadget

As you can see it's quite hard to establish people in this part of my tree, to say the very least.

There was a death of John Shea in Pembroke Q1 1879 aged 63 putting his birth at 1816. on the 1871 Census his birth would be  1824.   Plenty of room for error, but then again..............


From what has been written here, I was assuming that Joanna's father was not John, as in the story passed down, the first husband died, so Mary would still be the mother, but John Shea/O'Shea was her step father, but the real father of the boys – maybe.   John must have married Mary after Joanna was born for it to fit in with the story.

The nurse bit has never been shown to be correct so am open minded about that.   The story was from quite an old woman who does remember the bones of it, but is not completely accurate, I think she was Joanna's granddaughter.

It doesn't  make sense in  the 1871 census to have Joanna born  in Breconshire, if that is correct then have Edward born in Pembroke, then William born back in Breconshire before moving back to Pembroke.  John was a blind copper miner in 1871, I would wonder if they were travelling back and forth to Breconshire looking for work.

When Joanna married the second time she moved about a bit though, from Pembroke to, Brecon, Kidwelly, Hay, Nantymoel, and died in Llanelly, (1939).  Some of these being in Breckonshire.

Steven