Else Family of Ashover

[marp]

Hi Zanuda,

I was really interested in your post. I have also traced my Else ancestry back to Richardi Else.  I too have found a burial for Richardi Else in South Wingfield  on 24 February 1639  BUT a Richardi Else is listed on the Protestation Oath for South Wingfield in 1641. Perhaps the answer is that there is a father and son both named Richardi Else?  if you recall the Protestation Returns (1641-2) are lists of English males over the age of 18 who took, or did not take, an oath of allegiance "to live and die for the true Protestant religion, the liberties and rights of subjects and the privilege of Parliaments".

It looks to me if there is a burial in 1639 and taking an oath in 1641 that there must have been two people both named Richardi Else.

So let me recap what I have (and like you I am not sure I am correct).  I have Richardi Else born February 1603, parish of Ashover.   His spouse seems to be named Mariae and his son William is my direct ancestor.  William Else was baptised in South Wingfield on 21 April 1639 and his father is listed as Richard and mother as Maria Else.

I have a query regarding the mother Mariae.  Is she Mariae Horsley (1600-1672) baptised 29 August 1600 in Denby, Derbyshire,  her father being Vincent Horsely and mother Katherine Harte? I have no marriage record.  Now quite how Mariae got from Denby to South Wingfield is a bit of a mystery although I suppose they are not so very far apart.

I did not know anything of an Ann Gibbons by the way.

I would love to know more.  Incidentally, the early Else family seemed to live in Milltown a tiny hamlet in the parish of Ashover. 

regards, marp

[spendlove]

Hi,

I think the church registers are recording information about two separate men named Richard Else.

William son of Richard Else and Marie his Wife April 1639.  If this couple were not married the child would have been registered with his mother’s maiden name, probably as a bastard child.

Then there is a burial for a Richard transcribed as 24th Feb 1639, transcriber has ignored the fact that year ended 26 March, so should have indicated this - 24th Feb 1639/40.

The same applies to his wife Ann transcribed as 21 Feb 1639, should be 21 Feb 1639/40.

Is it possible that Richard & Ann, who died 1640, were the parents of Richard who is married to Marie?

The above events all appear on the same page of the register, with index per Family search

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77XT-L9X?i=13&cc=1911752&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKBDB-FBM

Spendlove

[marp]

Hi,

I am not sure of the accuracy of this (familysearch)  but I have a Richard Else married to Ann Gibbons in South Wingfield on 2 June 1603.   They were clearly not the same generation as the Richard Else married to Mariae.This couple had three children Ellen born 1635, William born 1639 and Richard born 1641.
It seems likely to me that the Richard who signed the Protestation Oath in 1641 was married to Mariae.

marp

[ZANUDA]

Hi, marp and spendlove,
 Thanks for your interest in trying to solve the Richard/i/us issue. It now seems that there  must be 3 Richards.
1. Richard married 1603 to Ann Glossop, both died 1639
2. Richard born 1603 married Mariae
3. Richard born 1641 to Maria & Richard 2
This scenario means that Richard 2 was alive to sign the Protestation return in 1641. Richard & Ann are red herrings and from a different family branch.
Don't we just wish our ancestors had a bit more imagination when naming their offspring. I'll go with this until someone throws a spanner in my tree.

[spendlove]

Hi,

The images of South Wingfield Parish Registers, which you can view for free on family search, are exactly the same images which can be viewd on Ancestry.

The marriage of Richard Else to An Gibbons on both sites is transcribed as 3rd June , however if you look at the image I think it is 23rd.  Will you take a look and see what you think.

Marriage is right hand page near bottom.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:2:77XT-L94?i=3&cc=1911752&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKBDB-8NS

Just a thought but if the English naming system was used by the Else family, you would expect the father of Richard = Mariae to be William, and Ellen to be the name of Mariae’s Mother.

Spendlove

[ZANUDA]

Hi Spendlove, I have tried to access the familysearch.org website but it is blocked to me. This is possibly due to the fact I live in Moscow. I don't usually have this sort of problem but some servers seem paranoiac about security issues. Cheers Zanuda.

[spendlove]

Hi,

You have to create an account on Family search, it is free, then connections I gave will work.

https://www.familysearch.org/en/

If you have already done this, sorry cannot help.

Spendlove