England or Wales?

[Annie65115]

Help!

I am confused about which country my ancestors lived in/came from and hence don't know where I need to look for parish records.

I have a birth certificate from 1838 which was for a birth in the district of Alberbury, Shropshire. OK so far. But this person's siblings were all born before registration started and the censuses state Criggion as place of birth; sometimes given as Shropshire and sometimes as Montgomeryshire.

Looking at the map Alberbury is just one side of the Wales/England border, Criggion just the other side; they are close enough together for it to be possible for one to be in the district of the other, if that would be possible across the country border.

Any ideas where I should look? Shropshire or Montgomeryshire?

Muchas gracias

[LoneyBones]

Play safe and look in both. 
There wouldn't have been a brick wall, (no pun intended) or even a line drawn on the road.
Villages and towns often grow across county borders.

Good hunting,
 
Leonie.

[Gadget]

Hi Annie 
 
See your previous thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338961.0.html

Also Fisherman's:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,325199.0.html


Look in both counties/countries


Gadget

[LoneyBones]

Oops, that's exactly what I mean.  On the ground, you don't think that two steps sideways puts you in another country.
At least not in Australia it doesn't. 

[Gadget]

It did where I was born and grew up - when Denbighshire/Wales was dry on Sundays, they used to walk half a mile to the first in England/Shropshire and drink there 

[Annie65115]

Thanks for highlighting the previous thread, Gadget; I don't recollect reading the end of that, I guess I should have gone back to look at it before posting again!

I don't know if the ancestors moved between Alderbury and Criggion or whether they lived inbetween the two (the address on the cert is "The Bulthey"). Census enumerators seemed not to know if Criggion was in England or Wales at the time!

Free BMD tells me that the area goes under the name of Atcham. Where do Atcham PRs live these days? Anyone know?

[Gadget]

Hi Annie

I think they'd be at Shrewsbury Archives but maybe Telford might have something

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SAL/Atcham/index.html



Gadget

[andycand]

Hi

In what context did you come across the name ATCHAM? The reason I ask is that its not uncommon to find the same name used for different entities.  If you are referring to a birth certificate then the Civil Registration District of ATCHAM straddles the boundaries of the counties of Montgomeryshire and Shropshire. The link below gives details of its coverage and you will see that it includes ALBERBURY and CRIGGION.

The Church Parish of ATCHAM is only one of many parishes within the Civil Registration District of ATCHAM.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/atcham.html

The Church Parish of CRIGGION/CRUGION was formed in 1864 out of the Parish of ALBERBURY  (see link below) prior to that it was a Chapelry in the Parish of ALBERBURY (see link below)

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/Crugion/index.html

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/Alberbury/index.html

The border between England and Wales is not like usual national borders in that often the only indication is likely to be a sign on a road saying Welcome to Wales. Whilst in some cases the border follows a natural boundary such as a river in many cases there doesn't appear to be a logical reason for the border. It cuts through parishes and I believe in a few cases, farms. In one place in North Wales, houses on one side of the road are in Wales, and the houses on the other side of the road, England.

As people quite often moved about it is possible that if a parish or locality straddled the border that family members could be born in different countries but use the same actual name. The parish records may have actual addresses that might help show the exact locations.

The parish links above do give some information regarding the locations of the parish registers.

Andy

[netgrrl79]

It did where I was born and grew up - when Denbighshire/Wales was dry on Sundays, they used to walk half a mile to the first in England/Shropshire and drink there 

When I met my partner I was living in No Mans Land - the road I lived on was the 'stalk' of a T where the 'top' of the T was the road from England to Wales; I looked left and a sign said 'Welcome to England', I looked right and another sign said 'Croeso i Gymru' ('Welcome to Wales')!