Robert Townsley 1815 Whitehavenn

[emmsthheight]

Hi Geoffe

I did actually, but you can't even look at the details to the enumeration areas without a subscription -  doesn't encourage you - we've just had a subscription and are deciding where to go next!

So I didn't go any firther!

Best wishes

Emms

[*Sandra*]

Hi Geoff.

As I said in my posting yesterday we are slowly going through the scans so we are doing as directed.
Sandra

[*Sandra*]

Hi Emms,

My friend tells me Betsy Lowther was named on the birth certificate of Catherine born Dec 1851 at High Street. Workington. As yet we have no marriage.

Best Wishes.
Sandra

[*Sandra*]

Hi

Unless I fell asleep going through these 335 scans of Workington - Robert Townsley & High Street have disappeared into outer space. No trace of either.

Sandra

[Geoff-E]

Forgive me 

It was so easy on 1861 - first enumeration district (10)
Part of the township of Workington comprising: Travelers Rest Inn and the houses adjoining, Elm Bank, all the houses in High St, Cross Hill, and Guard Street, Bank Garden and the Bank Houses, Pin Fold and King St

First Enumeration District (8a) 1851
The Township of Workington comprising Town Head, Cross Hill, Pinfold, Guards, Bank Houses and King Street and Guard Street.

Looking at a modern map http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=300852&Y=527982&A=Y&Z=110

Travellers Rest was opposite the present Ashfield Rd.
Elmbank was by the orange arrow and the kink in the road
There were houses from there to the next kink in the road - surely High St but also Town Head.

I have convinced myself that this was the case ... I have found Ann BACON and Hannah FRAZER two doors apart both in 1851 (Town Head) and 1861 (High St).  TOWNSLEYs must have been in the house occupied by SKELTONs in 1851 I think.

As you say dettori28, the people you are looking for were not there. 

[*Sandra*]

Hi Geoff

Thank you for trying to locate High Street, it is much appreciated.  My contact tells me the birth certificate for Catherine 1851 states Town Head !!
The next step forward is to get the birth certificate for Ann Townsley born Dec 1849 Workington & perhaps we can find where they were living then.

Meanwhile, thanks for your help.
Sandra

[*Sandra*]

Hi.

We have some progress but not quite sure it is helping us find this family on the 1841 or 1851 census yet.

The youngest son William christened 23 July 1842 to Robert & Betsy - abode Harris. Whitehaven (Could this be Harris Moor ?)

27 th January 1850 Ann, daughter of Robert & Betsy - spelling Townley of Town Head. Workington. So this would mean that for some reason they were missed off the 1851 census for Town Head.  Unless they were squatters in one of the uninhabited ones  !!!!

Emms - this might be interesting Robert was a POTTER at this time - might fit with your theory.

Possible christening record at St Nicholas Church. Whitehaven 5 Feb 1816 Robert to Ann Townsley - single woman of Market Place. Whitehaven. 
Also an Eleanor Townsley 31 July 1814 to Ann Townsley of Scotch Street. Whitehaven.
Also a possible christening and parents for Ann.

Best Wishes.
Sandra

[emmsthheight]

Hi Sandra

Interesting stuff.  Looks as if you may be in for colourful trail!

I don't know where your family will end up, but if they were travelling people it might well account for the not being on the census. 

The family I have been dealing with were seen in "A collection of tents", "Camping behind the hedge",  etc and one was later discovered telling fortunes living in a tent on the banks of the American lakes! 

They are also missing on many occasions from various official records including the census and BMD registrations.

Incidently there are a group called "Potters" who travel but my family were also involved in pottery manufacture in Cumbria.  There were potteries in Whitehaven including one not far from Harras Moor.

Pottery and such domestic items were big business at all levels round the town.  Whitehaven was once the third biggest port in the country so not only was there domestic demands but there was export trade, and goods for fitting out the great ships.  Everything from the finest ornate china to the popular brown wear were made locally.

We had trouble finding marriages - still have, but it seems some gypsies often did not marry in the official venues but were happy to marry "Over the Broom" or the "Brush" depending where you come from.  ie. In front of their own people.  I'm no expert though.  There are some good threads on Rootschat and some good sites.

Also, some clergy gave more detail than others, but some Wigton records are very detailed and there were large numbers of travellers.

A huge number of the baptism entries for the families I was looking at had cryptic comments, such as "Married they say in Scotland"  or at "Gretna"  meaning Gretna Green, and their "Priests"  Of course even then it is only hearsay to that priest.

Of course the same could be repeated in other parishes without it being written!

I plan soon to go and have a look at these records.

Good hunting.

I will look out the bits I took down.

Best wishes

Emms

[*Sandra*]

Hi Geoff.

I have checked the only Harras Moor I can think of in enumeration district 2 for 1841. Would the name Harras suggest anywhere else to you that I could try ?
You probably have a much better local knowledge than I do.
Thank You.
Sandra