A problem: Bridget & Margaret interchangable?

[Boongie Pam]

Hi All,

I've got a name question.  In Ireland are Bridget and Margaret ever used as variants of each other?

I ask because I have an oddity.

In 1841 & 1851 in Troqueer Kirkcudbright, Scotland I have a family Thomas and Bridget FALLEN both born in Ireland somewhere with their kids.  One of which is my direct Michael FALLEN (later FALLON).

Michael is born in Scotland but can find no birth , 1st marriage or death certs.  His 2nd marriage (1899) lists his mother as Margaret FALLEN nee LONG.  His family (from the 1st marriage) follows the Scottish naming pattern - for the child which should be named after Michael's mother she is named Margaret in 1866.

So these are the two pieces of evidence I have to suggest Bridget = Margaret.  Michael was born just 2 months before the 1841 census so a re-marriage is possible but unlikely.  I thougt maybe Bridget died when Michael was young maybe between 1851 & 1855 and he was brought up by a Margaret as I can't find Thomas or Bridget in 1861 or deaths therefore assume they pre-date statutory registration.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Pam
 

[chris359]

This one caught my attention as I have a similar situation, though mine was in Suffolk in the 1600s. Christopher RANSON was married first to Elizabeth, the mother of his children. He then married Margaret. No burial has been found for Margaret. No 3rd marriage has been found. However, when his will was written his wife was named as Bridget. Admittedly he was an old man, and had time to remarry, but no trace has been found despite mush searching!

After reading this post I wonder if the two names are used interchangeably. Would be interested in the thoughts of others.

Chris 

[Little Nell]

According to the book I have here on names, Bridget has never been interchangeable with Margaret.  St Bridget (or St Bride) of Kildare died in 523 AD.  The name was also popular in Scotland in the form of Bride where it gave rise to the place-name Kilbride, meaning cell of St Bridget.  The name derives from a Celtic word meaning strength.

Margaret on the other apparently derives from the Persian, meaning "child of light."  There seem to be a huge number of diminutives and variations around the British Isles, but none of them resembles Bridget or Bride.

You sure do have a puzzle there, Pam.  

Nell

[sarah99]

 It is not uncommon in my husband's family for people to be called something other than their originally given name.  For example, my mother-in-law's name is Margaret but she has always been called Elinor.   

Perhaps it is an example of this? 


Sarah

[Boongie Pam]

I've also got a few like that but these are all records or inferences which tell me "what she was known as".

Why would they fill out the census differently to how her son knew her?  That's the bit that is confusing me.

It's further confused by the Fallen surname it is invariably transcribed wrongly so I can't find Michael's siblings marriages or deaths either - these would tell me her name but no joy as yet.

The search continues.  Until I know her name I can't see any way into early Irish records.

Thanks all,
Pam
 

[Billiejo]

Hi

I agree with the previous comment that the two names are definately not interchangable.
 
The most usual old Irish version of the spelling is Brigid (as in St Brigid of Kildare) this is also sometimes shortened to the gaelic 'Bríd' or Breda.

[magsbutler]

I also agree that the names Bridget and Margaret are never interchangeable as variants of each other.

You say Michael was born just 2 months before the 1841 census, so presumably you have his baptism record?

Could Michael's father have firstly married a Margaret, then her sister Bridget ?Or vice versa?!

Re. possible mistakes with names and info on censuses:
I have a Mark, wrongly transcribed as 'Mary'; the original baptismal registers had to be consulted to reveal the error.
In the 1901 Irish census, I have a family with a 'daughter' who appears in no other lists of the children. Turns out it should have read 'granddaughter' !
There was me thinking this ancestor of mine had a sudden spurt very late in life to suddenly produce another daughter, his wife already dead, when the previous 12 children were by that time all grown up and emigrated!

Cheers
Mags

[Boongie Pam]

Hi Mags,

No I have no birth record becasue it was in Scotland.  Stat reg started in 1855 and teh Catholic records are few and far between.  In Troqueer where he was born the records are intermingled with the regular Cof S records but nothing there.

When I originally posted I'd lost this family after 1851 (except for Michael) but I have since found them again.  In Haltwhistle of all places?

Now an added contention that makes me think The Bridget I see in the census is the same person as Margaret that Michael declares is his mother.

In 1855 Catherine Fallen has a child with her husband Patrick Reily details in the post below.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,77477.0.html

So in 1841 we have Bridget but no relationship.  In 1851 we have Bridget as wife to Thomas and kids Catherine, Michael & Margaret.  In 1855 we have Catherine's child born and registered by grandmother Bridget.  That links - though still room for doubt, Bridget pre Michael (as Catherine's mother) and post Michael (census) as the mother of this family.

It is quite odd.

One change to the info in my original mail.  She is LANG not LONG - or so I think.

Thanks for the interest,
P

[Clarmac]

Hi Pam

Did you ever resolve:- " I've got a name question.  In Ireland are Bridget and Margaret ever used as variants of each other"

My Greatgrandmother's name is Margaret.  On the 1901 Irish census I assumed she had died and my Greatgrandfather had remarried Bridget - a nurse.  My Greatgrandmother Margaret ( a nurse) is on the 1911 census at the same family address, so obviously Margaret & Bridget are the same.

Seems funny we have both come across this in Ireland?

Cheers

Mike