Hayton in Hutton (or possibly Helton), Westmorland

[sillgen]

Oh dear
I am getting flack today about suggesting people use the LDS FH centres.  I have spent hours in the local record offices in my time and they are the best bet obviously - if you can get there.  If you can't then the LDS centres have to be a good alternative.  I also sing the praises of the Society of Genealogists if people can get to London.    The copies of the registers on film are a great source.    Very few archives allow access to actual written registers so the films/fiche are what you will see wherever you go.  In my original reply I said that Janeada should look at the original registers in Kendal.   It was only as "back up" that I suggested the LDS.   You imply that the films they hold are only of the IGI index.  They are not.  The index is a completely separate venture.  They have many films of the original registers and they are well worth looking at.
Regards
Andrea

[Janeada]

DickieDoodle,

If I lived near to Kendal Archive then this discussion would not be taking place I would be there consulting the original documentation. Sillgen is only trying to help. Sadly like so many other people I live a long way away from the primary sources needed for my research. The LDS can be a great help in this situation. I recently had a film of a Norfolk parish register and found baptisms I know are not in the IGI.  Admittedly the IGI is a very flawed secondary source which can only be used as a pointer. Definitely not to be relied upon as a sole source for research. It should always be checked against the parish registers where they exist and/or the BTs. And if there is corroborative evidence such as the census or wills so much the better.

And whilst we are discussing this sort of thing - it doesn't always pay to employ a researcher. My Fisher family tree had a big hole blown in it when I found the burial of a child aged one year. The researcher had assured me that this child's baptism was that of my 2x great grandfather which plainly was not correct. I had begged that man to look at the burial registers to see if any of the baptisms he was sending were those of children who sadly did not live long but he did not or could not I don't know which. At the time it was completely out of the question for me to go and look for myself. I eventually sorted out the mess by paying a lot of money for the Archive researchers to do some work for me. So now I like to see the parish registers for myself as much as possible.

Janeada

[BobKendal]

As William Turner said:

'Byrdes of on kynde and color flok and flye allwayes together'.

[DickieDoodle]

I suppose a quote for the research would be out of the question?!!

[Janeada]

Sorry DickieDoodle you have lost me.     You are going to have to explain what you mean. Sorry to be so thick!!

Janeada

[DickieDoodle]

1771, Feb 25 - Betty d/o Miles & Elizabeth Hayton of Fellside

[ChrisWest]

Hi Again,

I've had a quick look on Ancestry (library edition) and found:

1841 - Stricklandgate, Kendal

Edward Fisher 60 Joiner & Carpenter Y
Elizabeth         70                                Y
Elizabeth         20                                Y

presumably to go with a marriage 13 Aug 1798 - Edward Fisher & Elizabeth Hayton

but I was unable to find the entries for 1851 & 1861.

Are these the right people? and was Elizabeth still living in Kendal in 1851 & 1861?

Chris

[Janeada]

Hi,

Thank you DickieDoodle you beat Kendal Archive to it by about 12 hours!! I'm not sure what to think Fellside is part of Kendal town not Hutton Roof, New Hutton or Old Hutton. Although there are plenty of Elizabeths in my Fisher family there is no-one named Miles and they don't use the name Newby (I think Miles Hayton's wife was probably Elizabeth Newby before she married) as a middle name as they do with other maiden names.

The Archive have also explained the situation regarding Kendal Parish and the surrounding township churches. I will quote the relevant part of their e-mail: 

There were separate parish churches at New Hutton and Old Hutton. The parish records for New Hutton begin in 1741 and the registers for Old Hutton 1793. However these two churches were 'chapelries' of Kendal Holy Trinity and the register entries were copied into the Kendal Holy Trinity registers. Usually the KHT entries for a particular year would be listed first followed by those of all the individual chapelries. Therefore up until 1813 it is quite possible for a baptism to appear in the Kendal Holy Trinity register and in the register of the chapelry.

To answer your questions ChrisWest I have three census returns for Betty Fisher. The 1841 census which you found. I have the 1851 census as a paper copy from before I had a computer and in a transcription done by the Cumbria FHS. I tried and tried to find the census on Ancestry but failed each time. Then using the transcription I tried a name from the next page and it came up. When I clicked on the arrow at the top of the page to go back to the page I wanted it jumped two pages so I think they may have a page missing. I got Betty's place of birth from the 1851 census, they were living on Stricklandgate, Kendal.  Edward her husband died in 1852. In 1861 I think Betty is living with her youngest daughter Elizabeth and family at Salthouse Marsh, Dalton. Elizabeth's husband appears to have been William Wainman.  Ancestry have the names and places of birth in a bit of a muddle but the image is a poor one and difficult to read. Both Ancestry and FindMyPast have mistranscribed the married surname of Betty's daughter Elizabeth. Try looking for Betty Fisher aged 96 born Ashton, Westmorland.  I know there's no such place but as I said it is a poor image I had to magnify it up a lot in order to even guess what it is.  I think Betty had again given her birth place as Hutton.

I sent for a death certificate (1866) for Betty and a marriage certificate (1846) for her daughter Elizabeth which will probably arrive early next week.

Janeada

[Janeada]

The two certificates I sent for have now arrived

Elizabeth Fisher married William Wainman at the Register Office in Kendal on the 31st August 1845. William's father was John Wainman, Wool Comber and Elizabeth's father was Edward Fisher, Joiner. The witnesses were T. F. Spencer and Frances S. Wainman. Presumably Frances Wainman was a relative of the groom but I have no idea who the Spencer person might be.

Betty Fisher died on 8th March 1866 at Salthouse Marsh, Dalton aged 100 years. She was the Widow of Edward Fisher, Joiner, Master. Cause of death: Decay of Nature, Not Certified. Elizabeth Wainman (Betty's daughter although no relationship is given) registered the death on 24th March 1866.

I don't know that this gets me any further forward in my search for Betty's baptism except that it does seem that Betty and her close relatives are consistent with the age given on the censuses. I am very unsure about the 1771 baptism but don't really know what else I can do to try to find another one that would fit better with what I already know of Betty's life. Does anyone have any more comments?

Janeada