Identify Military Uniform and date please

[sgauntlett]

I've found him on the 1911 census, living in Lewisham, London and occupation Master Tailor.

My grandfather, sadly deceased, was born in December 1912 - again Lewisham.

He didn't know much about his father though and was only 17 when Benjamin died.

[scrimnet]

Well....x2 badges fit in with what we seem to have on his cap....

Wandsworth Volunteer Trg Corps

and Middx Volunteer Regt

Either could fit in here then.....

[sgauntlett]

Thats fantastic information scrimnet, thanks 

Where should I go next to look at records and try and confirm Benjamin?

[sgauntlett]

Is there somewhere on the net where I can find pictures of the cap badges to compare for myself? I found a picture of the Middlesex badge on the internet which looked close but not exact in my opinion.

Are there any books or resources about the WW1 volunteers?

Thanks

[scrimnet]

The standard reference work is Kipling and Kings "Head Dress Badges of the British Army" in x2 volumes....But they cost a packet...Look on Amazon!!

If you have access they are K&K 1659 and 1666

[colonel-m]

Certainly not an officer in the regular army the puttees were worn by other ranks the officers would have worn knee high brown riding boots     too scruffy to be an RSM who wore officers tunic ...and he would have been older as most senior warrant officers of the pre war army were older long served soldiers...the badge is difficult to put to any unit.....officers badges were in black for that period..and collar badge were worn as well.....the pip if it is a pip is too high up on the shoulder s   having served in the ranks and got my pips up in the 70s....in the Army, and as a historian and former military collector, this is my subject..........the cap is not the officers srvice cap to hard and stiff the officers was a soft version with lower crown....and broader chin straps..also officers carried a cane.with a silver ball regimental patern..............warrant officers carried a pace stick which was larger than the officers cane.....cant date the period.......the uniform is ...~??? more details please then I can help........can say further to this when soldiers had their photograph taken in a studio the ohotographer had props so the soldier coild show off to his girl friend this happened in the US civil war.....which made the looking for the mans unit and regt........difficult......have a collection of old photographs of old time uniforms of that period....in old plate on card..............sepia..........

[scrimnet]

Hello colonel m and welcome to RC and the AF board

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you on a number of counts there!

Only field officers wore riding /polo/field boots in WW1, all the subbies wore puttees (Capt's included!); the broad chinstrap did not come in for officers until well after WW1, indeed just before WW2!

Officers badges were bronzed...Rifle Brigade Regts (all ranks) had black badges; officers in WW1 DID wear stiff topped SD caps, The only ball topped canes I have seen are ORs walking out sticks...Silver topped walking canes for officers, yes....leather covered officers canes, yes....Embellished ball top Regt pattern sticks...errrrr...no

I have several pics of officers, particularly on the General List without collar dogs...In fact some officers wore different cap badges and collar dogs....eg a certain double VC MO...

As for a prop pic...Certainly QRs of today, and certainly KRs of the period have a clause, and a civilian arrestable one to boot for "impersonating an officer" Look what happened to Percy Topliss in WW1!! Admittedly, he had something else to answer for from Etaples!

[colonel-m]

no officers did wear boots but as officers had to buy kt not issued and so many were conscripted in many did not have the money or influence so yes many did wear puttees  but if not assigned to a unit the badge would have have been the coat of arms like the RSMs badge this was worn until the 60/70s as seen many in the Staff HQs especially in the Colchester Garrison as many staff were still the war time served and were not assigned to any unit. having the dres code for the Yorkshire Battlalion , and as a former officer the cap was barathea not serge for ORS. and officers from the victorian period to modern times are to have a regt tailor...who had to to follow the dress code for regts and corps.....all officers were given a book on dress codes for the day and evening includin the uniform..in my day if you could not afford the sword you went to the Adjt who issued with one the RSM usuall gave you sword drill for parades....Sandhurst is different today since the 70s, as mons finished and Sandhurst took over for all commissions. in my collection years ago had the regt officers cane with regt badge....now the household  cavalry officer have a silver topped cane as seen one at the funeral here...a Capt was carrying it in his dress service dress and others carried a regt riding crop.....yes badges were bronze  and some were black.....like the rifle regts the chaplains dept for one....for Northern Ireland in the 70s all badges were black for night patrols.....had many items in my collection including rare Celon planters uniform the badge were more than the uniform they were made of solid silver and the cap badge....the National Army musuem wanted it.....as they had no records of that unit or bades...that was an old boys club as most units were out there then....my Uncle Major Jack Barnard belong to the Burma forrest planters but went on to win the MC in Burma....
NOW IF YOU SEE MT OWN FATHER IN iNDIA AS AN OFFICER HE WAS THE MOST SCRUFFY OFFICER....
in the photographs he is wearing un orthodox uniform for the Indian Army as was the case.....as he never collected his medals I sent for them....and managed to get a cap badge of his unit in India....#
now to those photos have in my collection of old photos from the Victorian to WW1 all soldiers in a studio.. all posed.... the WW1 are the post card type ,the victorian are studio sepia type   including a large regt photo group....its the only thing I collect as it needs little space....yes had a victorian officer sword as well with bayonets of the period...but all gone now.....hate to say it but the cllection was mainly the German W2 period from SS to civillian stuff with medals knives sword etc.....used to be a civil war re-actor as well doing the shows and battles....

[scrimnet]

Various WW1 hats for you Simon...to compare and contrast

Some from RC, some form my collections