McCrum's of Newry Ireland

[Lorie Knight-Begin]

Also searching McCrum's in Newry. 
I am stuck finding the birth of Robert McCrum.   He married Elizabeth (Bessie) Irvine who were married on August 13, 1867, at Donaghmore. in Newry.   Robert says he was born in Loughorne. son of Isaac McCrum.  On one record i have, it says he was the son of James (a labourer), but a friend looked at the actual church record, and it definitely says that Robert's father, was Isaac, and that he was deceased by  1867.

I cannot find Robert's birth record.  On his marriage, it says he was 22 years old.  On his death certificate, it says he was 62 years old in 1910,  but this information was given by his son.


Looking for Robert's birth or baptismal record, and Isaac's death record.   

Problem is, that there are so may Isaac's.  LOL

We are descended from Robert and Bessie's son, Isaac, who married Elizabeth Crawford, in 1896 in Belfast.

Lorie

 

[Lorie Knight-Begin]

Robert does not appear in Civil registration.  We have access to 3 or 4 paid Irish genealogy sites, and cannot find him anywhere.   He could have been born between 1844-1848, according to what records we have accumulated so far.

Lorie

[aghadowey]

Robert does not appear in Civil registration.  We have access to 3 or 4 paid Irish genealogy sites, and cannot find him anywhere.   He could have been born between 1844-1848, according to what records we have accumulated so far.

Please be aware that you will not find records that do not (and never did) exist. As I mentioned earlier, civil registration of births started in 1864.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

I cannot believe there are so many Isaac McCrum McCrumb McRum etc records available, to stop looking, so following on contributions from you all, Bhoy, aghadowey, Sam, lorie; I would suggest a Gathering up all the Isaac McCrum references findable
from http://www.ancestryireland.com
births
ISAAC RAINEY   MCCRUM   b1828   father WILLIAM   Down
ISAAC         MCCRUM   1846   father MOSES   Down
marriages
MCCRUM   WILLIAM ISAAC   1851   father MOSES   Down
MCCRUM   AGNES         1854   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   ISAAC         1854   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   JAMES         1858   father ISAC   Down   
MCCRUM   WILLIAM      1865   father ISAAC   Down
MCCRUM   ROBERT      1867   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   SARAH      1868   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   MARGARET      1873   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   JOHN         1879   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUMB   PATRICK JAMES   1882   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   JAMES         1882   father ISAAC   Down   
MCCRUM   SAMUEL      1894   father ISAAC   Armagh
MCCRUM   ISAAC           1896   father ROBERT   Antrim
other sources

from http://www.ancestryireland.com
Isaac   McCRUM/ McRUM. Newry   son of Isaac McRum; married Mary Fox 15 Feb 1854 at Downshire Road Presbyterian Church ; father of Henry b. 17 Aug 1870 & David b. 10 Apr 1873   CR
John   McCRUM . Newry son of Isaac McCrum; aged 30 married Agnes McGinnity 11 Apr 1851   CR
Joseph   MCRUMB  Newry son of Isaac Mcrumb; married Susan Boyd 20 Nov 1851   CR
Robert   McCRUM  Donaghmore husband of Elizabeth Irvine/ Ervine; father of Isaac b. 3 Jan 1868 & Robert b. 29 May 1871   CR
William Isaac   McCRUM   .   Drumballyroney   son of Moses McCrum; married Eleanor Rean 29 Mar 1851   CR
f
rom https://www.emeraldancestors.com
birth or baptisms
1868   Isaac MCCRUM   M            Down
marriages
1854   Isaac    MCCRUM   married   Mary    XXXXXXX   Newry
1896   Isaac    MCCRUM   married   Elizabeth    XXXXXXX   Belfast
1911   Isaac    MCCRUM   married   Agnes    XXXXXXX   Newry
1913   Isaac    MCCRUM   married   Eliza    XXXXXXX   Lisburn

then joined by Lorie with her
Isaac MCCRUM of Loughhorne
Ros Davies place name database gives interesting possibilities
Longhorn Cottage Donaghmore. farm; 6km NNE of Newry town    old b/w mapC8
Loughhorne   Newry   . see Loughorn   V3 p 61 OSM
see much more under http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donaghmore1/donaghmore/donvrbapt1.html below

more sources http://www.bagenalscastle.com/ancestry/index.htm
Source   Number of Results
Flaxgrowers List   2
Firstname   Surname   Parish   Date
George   McCrum   Clonallan   1796
John   McCrum   Clonallan   1796

Householders Index   2
Surname   County   Parish Name   Griffith Entries   Tithe Entries
MCCRUM   DOWN   NEWRY (LORDSHIP)   7   0
MCCRUM   DOWN   CLONALLON   0   1

List of Voters for Newry 1868   1
First name   Surname   Record   Address   Religion   Comments
George   McCrum      3 Windsor Hill   Episcopalian   Voted

Newry Directory 1900   1
John   McCrum   painter   Talbot Street   

Newry Town Agricultural Census 1803   5
Firstname   Surname   Location
John      McCrumb   Savilmore
Widow   McCrum   Ballybrick
John      McCrum   Indle
Robert      McCrum   Indle
Samuel   McCrum   Indle
John      McCrum   Moneydarraghmore
James      McCrumb   Grallaghgrenan
James jun.   McCrumb   Grallaghgrenan

30 entries in http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donaghmore1/donaghmore/donvrbapt1.html reduced to just with an Isaac in entry, rushed so incomplete possibly
Isaac William McCrum - Moses - Elizabeth McCrum - Indile.   29 Jan 1826
James McCrum - Isaac - Ross Lions - Carnecally.   28 Jan 1830
Jane McCrum - Isaac - Ross Lions – Carnecally  19 January 1835
Sarah - F - Isaac McCrum + - Charlotte McGaw - Labourer - 21/3/1847 - Castleanigan - 20/1/1847. +Recommended By Mr. Harshaw and propriety of this to be decided by Mc’s future conduct as a member of the church
Samuel - 3 - 0 - Isaac McCrumb - Sarah Megaw - laborer - 12/1/1852 - Loughorne - 12/7/1852.
Isaac - M - Isaac Mc Crumb - Sarah Megaw - Laborer - -/5/1854 - Loughorne - 26/8/1854.
Jane - Isaac Mc Crumb - Sarah Megaw - Laborer - -/8/1856 - Loughorne - -/5/1857.
Hanna - Isaac McCrumb - Sarah Megaw - Laborer - 14/3/1858 - Loughorne - 21/3/1858.
William - M - Isaac McCrum - Sarah McGaw - Labourer - 26/3/1863 - Castlelanaghan - 21/5/1863.
Isaac - M - Robert McCrum - Elizabeth Irvin - Labourer - 3/1/1869 - Ardkeragh - 2/2/1868.
Isaac - M - John Main - Sarah McCrum - Scutcher - 17/12/1870 - Loughorne - 6/1/1871.

If you sort all the above into families as far as possible, whats left over is the crux of family history. that part is free,   My surprise is that Newry itself is not the hub of the records but the wider use of a registration district. Townland and parishs seem to help most.  I would start with Loughhorne.  I have run out of time  so over to the McCrums to sort it out if you/they think my blanket useful
More church records should be finally sought and working backwards for the census
Good luck

[Lorie Knight-Begin]

Thanks for the information.  I have most of this also.  I will claim the Issac who married Elizabeth Irving, in 1867,  His son also Isaac married Elizabeth Crawford in 1896, she died and he then married Elizabeth Corken in 1915, both of these marriages taking place in Belfast.  It was on of their daughters who came to Canada, that is my grandmother.


Lorie

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Lorie, I am slowly becoming aware of how long you have been hunting for your information. May I explore some of the records with you.

I start if it exists, with the detailed version of the civil and church marriage of an Isaac McCrum b~1868-70 from Donaghmore m 1896 to an Elizabeth [Crawford?] b~ 1874-5  [Emerald ancestors website have an EC birth 1874] with later two daughters Jane McCrum b~1896-7 and Edith Elizabeth McCrum b 1899-1900, living in Southland Street (Woodvale, Antrim) [ie Belfast].  All are in the 1901 irish census. By the 1911 census this Elizabeth McCrum has died, so Isaac is a widower in the 1911 Irish census with two daughters.  Have you seen the detail of their marriage, if not, perhaps some Chatterer might help you.  I wondered if the father of this Isaac or Elizabeth is mentioned ?

My further information suggests Elizabeth McCrum died 24 May 1907 aged 33. Isaac McCrum died 14 Dec 1915 aged 48 years and was living just previously in Southland street. They are buried in Dundonald Cemetery  Belfast see  my source http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/community/cemeteries/dundonaldcemetery.aspx

Have you seen the civil or church marriage details of Elizabeth Corken marrying an Isaac McCrum ?  It must have lasted tragically for less than a year.   Did she leave for Canada

I looked on www.familysearch. org and www.findmypast.co.uk for migration records for a Jane or Edith. I noticed on FS a Jane McCrum migrating 01 Sept 1924 aged 29 New york arriving on the Orduna.   An Isaac migrated in 1919 to Quebec.
So what I was trying to be confident about is that you have the right connection leaving Ireland?

I don’t know the local geography of the civil parish area of Donaghmore and Newry. so I looked more carefully. Donaghmore sits ontop of Newry. Along the southern boundary of Donaghmore running west to east are the townlands of Aughnacavan, Tullymurry , Cargabane, Ringbane, Ardkeeragh. In Newry civil parish running west to east underneath these townlands are Loughorne, Shinn, Curley and Ouley, underneath them are Castle Enigan, Desert, & Finnard. The whole area of interest appears to be  only 3 miles square.

Ros Davies website refers to an oldmap b/wc1860 which has Longhorn cottage Donaghmore named on it. She writes ‘if I have a reference listed to it then I can scan and email that part of the map.   have you seen that map?  The 0S map of the area would be in b/w. So I looked up the www.askaboutireland.com for the Griffith valuation database that includes the 1st edition, 1st revision Ordnance Survey map 6 inch to the mile dated ~1860. I found a patch of land in Loughhorne townland, in Newry civil parish that shows a Loughorne  Cottage above a Loughorne House,  both slightly south of what appears to be a peat type bog or marsh, the east side of this patch is prone to flooding.   Above the parish boundary line, and within Donaghmore civil parish, I could find no trace of anything spelt Loughorn(e).  A glimpse of the OS map 1st ed map of about 1830 would sort that, or be discussed in the OS Memoirs for the area. see the book - Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland Volume 3: Parishes of County Down I 1834-6, South Down Edited by Angélique Day and Patrick McWilliams. Pub by Institute of Irish Studies, QUB, Belfast. published 1990; 136 pages; 24 x 17cm; paperback; ISBN 085389 358 6.   This volume covers the civil parishes of: Clonallan, Clonduff, Donaghmore, Drumballyroney, Drumgath, Drumgooland, Kilbroney, Kilcoo, Kilkeel, Kilmegan, Newry, Warrenpoint.  I have no access to this book.
I have noticed there are early records of McCrum in Clonallan.

DONAGHMORE, CO. DOWN
C.I. Donaghmore (Dromore diocese)Baptisms, 1783-1958, with an index for 1783-1851;
marriages, 1795-1845, with an index for 1795-1844;burials, 1784-1858, 1861-1932 and 1950-58, with an index for 1784-1858; confirmation list, 1835; preachers’book, 1920-38.
Marriages, 1845-.MIC1/54/2; CR/1/48;D2034/3/4; D2034/5/8In local custody
P. Donaghmore Baptisms, 1804-37 and 1845-1968; marriages, 1845-1936.Burials of Presbyterian ministers, 1765, 1771, 1803,1854 and 1927.MIC1P/129 MIC1/54/2
P. Fourtowns Baptisms, 1820-97; marriages, 1845-1936. MIC1P/437 R.C. Donoughmore (Dromore diocese) Baptisms, 1835-80; marriages, 1825-82; funerals,1840-71.MIC1D/22
Ros davies locates these churches see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PHOTOSwords/DonaghmoreAll.htm

so Lorie, Do you want me to carry on when I have time?

Jennifer have not found Alexander McCrum in Australia yet. The website ancestry appears to have the records, but I am not a member.

[Lorie Knight-Begin]

Thanks for looking for the McCrum's. 
Our direct line consists of :

Robert Crawford, married Elizabeth/Bessie Irvine, August 13, 1867. In Donaghmore.   A copy of their marriage says his father was James, but the actual church record, says his father was Isaac.

Robert and Bessie had 12 children.  Their oldest son Isaac, born in 1868, moved to Belfast, and married Elizabeth Crawford, in 1896. They had two children, Jean, and Edith Elizabeth.  Isaac worked for Harland an Wolff.  Elizabeth died in 1907.  Isaac remarries in 1913
to Lizzie Corken. 

Isaac died in 1915.  Apparently Lizzie was mean to the two girls, and they left, and moved in with some Adair relatives.

They caught the first ship, out of Ireland, in 1918, and came to Montreal, where a sister of their father (Isaac) had immigrated. 

The girls both married in Montreal.  Edith Elizabeth married a Thomas Moorcroft, from Lancashire, and they had three children, of which my mother was one.  Edith died 6 days after my mother was born, and she was raised by her father, and paternal grandparents.

We have documented all of this.  The only thing we are stuck on, is the birthdate of Robert, who was apparently from Loughorn, and the death of his father Isaac. The birth seems to be at the point when two of the Presbyterian churches, were merging, or splitting.   

The family of Robert and Bessie Irvine (of Shinn) seems to be Church of Ireland.

It may be, that we will have to wait, until these records, become available online, as searching from Canada is not possible, We have paid researchers in the past, and a very kind lady named Maud Hamill, helped out a lot.. by looking up records for us.

Thanks again, for your kind attention.

Lorie



 

[Corinne McCrum]

Hi, my line of McCrums starts with Moses mcCrum (1790 - 1874) lived in Rienroe, Rathfriland. I can't see reading through all of your records that he was closely related to your McCrums. It seems that McCrums were like Smiths in that area at that time!
Any links known?

[Kiltaglassan]

Moses McCrum died on 24 July 1874 at Cullion in Clonallan civil parish and near Rathfriland. The informant was a David McCrum.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020655/7247755.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-upper-upper-half/clonallan/clonallan-upper/cullion/