German Pork Butchers in Britain

[scrimnet]

No probs mate....! 

The German bombing of Britain in WW1 has been largely forgotten...

[johnbhoy]

Two points:

1) Anybody who has ever been to a german supermarket, will have seen the array of sausages and hams ("1001 ways to process a pig") there.  So a "german" pork butcher would probably be much more specialised than an english pork butcher.

2) to the topic-within-a-topic: My mother fled from Austria to Britain as a refuge from the Hitler-regime in 1938, but in 1965 she was still getting the anti-german treatment, because of her accent.

Bob

Bob, I can believe that, because when I was at school in the early 70's, one of our teachers (Mrs Turner) had fled the Nazis during WW2 from Holland. She had a very thick accent and therefore, the 'uneducated' at our school would call her 'Fritz'!!!?  ....and  if there was an Irish relief teacher, well it was just 'open season' for the neanderthals 

[johnbhoy]

No probs mate....! 

The German bombing of Britain in WW1 has been largely forgotten...

Yes your right, but I do recall a program about someones Grandmother / GGM dying in a zeppelin raid, it may have been on one of the WDYTYA programs  Going to have to rack my brain now 

[johnbhoy]

Hi John,

My GGF was interned despite having married (2) English women (first wife died) and having 4 small children by 1914 all in England. 
Also, the entry on the 1911 census states my GGF was naturalised in 1904 - though there are no records of this in NA at Kew - this may be my failure to use their search system properly, or he may have made an understandable fib in an attempt to protect himself and his family!

I've also had another look at the 1901 census entry (when my GGF was in Carlisle working in the Butchers), and on the same page, same street, in a different house there is another butcher (Issac Thompson) living there.  Possibly a co-incidence - who knows?

Ali

Alison,
          I knew I was missing something and I remembered your above post about the 1911 census. I was unaware that there was access to the 1911 census, as when tracing my own side of the family, I was using mostly Scottish / Irish sites.

Anyway I found my wifes GGGF Christian Frederick Wall in 1911, he had moved from Carlisle 2 years previously and was living in Lancaster. He had 7 children, but also, he was working for the co operative as a pork butcher.

Now Ive got to find out if he was ever interned and when / why did he move back to Carlisle?

Also, the census does give his nationality as German, BUT also says Württenberg, which is a great find and confirms about what is mostly written about these guys, coming from that district in Germany. (also says 1885? don't know what that's about as he was born in 1872  )
I would have attached the 1911 census paper, but can't get it below 500kb

Thanks Again Alison, much appreciated

John 

[bongo ali]

Hi,
That's great - hope I have some similar luck re mine! 
Just a thought, because he was working for the Co-Op, I wonder if, because they were such a big, established employer, if they have any archived records they could share with you ? Perhaps worth a try?

Alison

[johnbhoy]

I've emailed the co-op and I'll see what reply I get, probably will be told that I'm a madman and should get a life 

Going back to one of your original posts Alison, you mentioned the name Issac Thompson, who was also a butcher.
Now I know Thompson is not a Hebrew name, but Issac is, and it's Hebrew for Issachar, unlike the English equivalent that is spelt with two A's - Isaac (as in Newton etc etc).

Probably putting 2 and 2 together and gettin 5, but maybe a small coincidence if your relative was possibly Jewish and they were both butchers in the same street?

All the Best Ali
John 

[johnbhoy]

Hi,
That's great - hope I have some similar luck re mine! 
Just a thought, because he was working for the Co-Op, I wonder if, because they were such a big, established employer, if they have any archived records they could share with you ? Perhaps worth a try?

Alison

Hi Alison,
              I was trawling through the websites on google and came across a butchers in Burnley (they have 3 shops in the town), whose descendent's had a well established pork butchers shop in Carlisle from the 1870's onwards.
They are called Haffners and I have emailed them to see if they have any past history of that shop and it's employees, including the names of Christian Frederick Wall & your GF, Henry Cutts from 1896 onwards (is that ok?).
It's a long shot I know, but worth a try. They have a family history on their web page, which includes the anti German feelings during WW1, which got so bad, that when his 3 sons were on leave from the trenches, they stood behind the counter in uniform to shame the locals.

By the way, did Henry Cutts ever anglicize his name, as there are a pork butchers in Lincoln, also from German descent, but they are called Curtis? Just a thought.

One note of interest from the war years, is that, before The King changed his name to Windsor, and also before HG Wells wrote to the king to register his concern of the Germanic SCG name, a Labour MP had stood up in the house and addressed the king as a 'German Pork Butcher'...........

John 

[bongo ali]

Hi John,

No problem at all sending Henry's info - 2 heads must be better than one in the mammoth trawl that is finding your family tree, especially when it's as elusive as ours is turning out to be!!
I honestly have no idea if my Henry anglicised his name - don't know if Cutts is the anglicised version (perhaps Kutz originally??) -absolutely no clue! All of the documentation I've managed to find up to now (1896 is when he first appears in England onwards) he is referred to as Cutts.
Just for the record, me being up at 3am is not usual - just come in from a Hospice fundraising doo and I'll pay the price tomorrow (or later today to be accurate!)

Alison

[johnbhoy]

OK Ali that's good, I didn't want to overstep the mark.
Hope all goes well with the fund raising doo,was it one of those midnight walks? My wife and eldest daughter done the race for life this year, and my cousin and neices do midnight walks for a hospice down in Crawley.
BTW, I'm in Trinidad just now, so time difference is minus 5 hours behind you guys, so I generally post at stupid o'clock as well 

John