German Pork Butchers in Britain

[toni*]

By the way Gill, thanks to you, I have now ordered up Christian Frederick Wall death cert, so hopefully it may assist in recording the names of his parents or his birth town in Germany

Thanks
John 

John sorry to disappoint but an English (& Wales) Death certificate show only minimal information:

where and when the deceased died, name and surname, sex, age (or d.o.b.), occupation (or last occupation if retired) and address, and cause of death, along with the signature, description and address of the person giving information about the death, along with when it was registered and the name of the registrar
if the person is a widow it may show her maiden name

the death certificate is issued upto 8 days after death - used to be 5, and acts as a licence for the undertaker to dispose of the body.

[johnbhoy]

Thanks Toni, I was unaware of that, as about 80% of my family research has been mostly Scottish and I was able to gather valuble information from the Scottish BMD.
As you are aware, sometimes you just get the smallest piece of info and it opens up a whole new search but anyway, it's a labour of love Toni and nobody said it would be easy lol, but I appreciate the feed back and won't be as dissopointed when the death cert arrives.
Ali mentioned below about internment camps, so that's gave me something else to ponder

Many Thanks for your reply

John 

[bongo ali]

Hi,
There's some excellent info and background details on this website - search using 'WW1 Internment Camp at Knockaloe' and it should take you direct.  Knockaloe was the internment camp on the Isle of Man where I think my ggfather was imprisoned, but there were many others all around the UK.
Ali

[johnbhoy]

Thanks Ali, I'm having a real dig into internment camps on the IOM and Isslington, I wish the NA were more user friendly though lol. Not to sure if CF Wall would be interned as he was married to an English woman and had 3 English born children by the time of 1914, but you never know

Thanks a lot Ali
John 

[toni*]

Do you think Wall could be an anglicised version of his surname ?

Was he naturalised ? or an alien? either way records should be at TNA
My Grandad wasn't naturalised , it was too expensive, so he had to sign on at the local police station weekly for a number of years even after he was married until the Police said he didnt need to anymore, I wonder where these records would be held.

in Victorian times it was ok to have a German surname but later and especially towards the war years it became seen as .... er ..... not a good thing and names were changed.

Saxo coburg to Windsor for one.

Ps i don't think he was Jewish. re the Pork. it sometimes helps to know religious denomination.

[bongo ali]

Hi John,

My GGF was interned despite having married (2) English women (first wife died) and having 4 small children by 1914 all in England. 
Also, the entry on the 1911 census states my GGF was naturalised in 1904 - though there are no records of this in NA at Kew - this may be my failure to use their search system properly, or he may have made an understandable fib in an attempt to protect himself and his family!

I've also had another look at the 1901 census entry (when my GGF was in Carlisle working in the Butchers), and on the same page, same street, in a different house there is another butcher (Issac Thompson) living there.  Possibly a co-incidence - who knows?

Ali

[johnbhoy]

Toni,
      I don't think so but then again, I'm not 100% sure if the surname has been anglacised, as I have found a Christian Frederick Wall on a passenger ship list out of Hamburg on the ancestry.de (German) website. There is a 5 years age difference, though that doesn't really count for much as we now know these days.
There are German surnames such as Wahl that are from the area where many pork butchers were from in Wurttenburg, so there may be a possibility and obviously the 'Saxe Coburg Gothe' always alerts me to the fact that the name may be anglacised.
I'm unsure of Christian Fredericks religion, I know that my wifes father was Protestant (Christian Fredericks grandson), but it's an avenue I never thought of looking over, which is rather ignorant of me as I thought most of unified Germany was RC. (forgot about the Lutherans).
Unbelievable that your Grandad had to report to a police station, I learn something new everyday and my wife is now getting really interested in searching for her German roots, thanks for sharing that.

Best Regards
John 

[johnbhoy]

Ali,
    I find that astonishing that your GGF was interned even though he had an English wife AND 4 English born children, facinating but astonished also.

Iv'e had a look on the 1901 census but do not see any other pork butchers living on the same street, which was Etterby Street in 1901, and then they moved to Dixon Street in 1902.

John

[bongo ali]

Hi John,

My GGF lived in Court Street in Carlisle. 
It's incredulous to even begin to comprehend how people were simply 'taken away' - for years in my GGF's case, isn't it.  Even worse to think the dreadful situation it left his English wife and 4 kids in - no welfare state to look after them in those days, and anti-German fervour being whipped up on a daily basis. No doubt a few bricks thru windows!
Also, I've been advised (by a Jewish relative), that I shouldn't assume just because he was a Pork Butcher that he wouldn't have been Jewish - it's possible he was simply a non-kosher Jew (my sister in law is!).
Like your wife, I'm becoming more and more drawn into the wonderful world of finding out about my roots - however frustrating it is.

Good luck with all of our combined efforts!

Ali