Registri ebraici 1770-1899: The Jews of Mantua - Births, Deaths, Marriages

[GreggZelmanTree]

Hi

I've just been told the above microfilm I ordered has arrived at my local FHS in Melbourne. 

If you want to look up the number is 1618972 - Registri ebraici.

If anyone needs a lookup, the film is there until late November (2009) - I plan on making a few trips until then. 

I don't speak Italian but don't think it will be too difficult...we shall see.

Cheers
Kate

[JustinL]

Kate,

You'll have lots of fun with that. I would imagine that many of the earlier entries are in Hebrew.

Are you researching your own ancestry?

Justin

[GreggZelmanTree]

Thank you, Justin.   

Yes, I'm researching my Austrian/Italian Jewish ancestors from Mantua (the Cologna family) who moved to Trieste in 1826.  I just want to see the microfilm to confirm some exact dates and spellings.

I'm really hoping it won't be in Hebrew though.  I wouldn't know where to begin! 

Cheers
Kate

[JustinL]

Kate,

I've just done some googling. So you are descended from Rabbi Abraham Vita de Cologna of Mantua? Interesting!

I would say that entries in Hebrew are an inevitability. But take heart, with a bit of practice you can learn to recognise names and dates in cursive Hebrew.

Have you seen this:

http://www.genami.org/Personnages-celebres/en_membres-gd-sanhedrin.php

Justin

[GreggZelmanTree]

Hello Justin

I'm only a tiny step ahead of you!!    This was confirmed two weeks ago.

There were four children of his - 3 girls and 1 boy.  The family moved to Paris in 1809 (after his dealings with Napolean, COLOGNA became the Great Rabbi of Paris) and after the role was over, nearly all of the family moved to Trieste in 1826 (except for two of his daughters who married Frenchmen - their history is well documented). 

I've been theorizing for the last two years about the circles Samuele Vita ZELMAN (linguist, poet, author) was moving; the names of whom he was linked to.  They definitely would have 'known' of eachothe!  The only thing that specifically linked him to COLOGNA was an interesting dedication to the memory of Abraham Cologna in one of Zelman's books where he referred to him as "al Padre"...but then he could have been saying Cologna was the 'father' of all Triestine Jews...  Anyway, I contacted the other decendants and told them of my theory that ZELMAN was son-in-law, married to his daughter 'Bona'? (Bonina as my family refers to her). 

Finally it's been proven.  One of the decendants was able to get it from Trieste's Jewish Community.  My microfilm was ordered a couple of months ago but it's not wasted -  this will tidy up some dates etc.

Thank you for the interest, Justin. I'll let you know what happens when I turn the microfilm reader on!

Cheers
Kate

[JustinL]

Hello Kate,

How fascinating! It's great when a theory can be proven.

I'd be equally excited about seeing the film. Do let me know what you discover.

Justin

[GreggZelmanTree]

Hi Justin...and anyone interested,

You weren't wrong...

All entries were handwritten (by different hands/pens), many pages stained with age (or bleed-through), some pages torn.  The earliest entries of the Register were written in a combination of Hebrew and Italian for each entry (I had no choice but to keep turning the handle).  As the entries progressed from 1710 the Hebrew writing was overtaken solely by Italian (possibly around 1780).

The census was undated but seemed to cover many years with occasionally updated entries (written with a different hand/pen) specifically in the “Observations” section.  My opinion, upon reading through it, is that this wasn’t strictly a census for one particular moment in time but more a “keeping track” of the Jewish community over a period of time. 

I was pleased I found everyone on my list but am going back next Saturday (10 Oct) to broaden my search and to double-check a spelling (those 's' letters that look like the letter 'f' throw me!).

Cheers
Kate

[JustinL]

Kate,

Did you find Abraham himself?

Were you able to identify any family members in the Hebrew/Italian section? I could attempt to read the Hebrew if you are able to scan the entries.

What period do the records cover? Are they really from 1710?

Justin

[GreggZelmanTree]

Hi Justin

Yes, I found Abraham almost right away...but then I knew the names of his parents too so that made it a lot easier.

I tried really hard to work out names in the Hebrew/Italian section but the format made no sense and the format style changed too. 

There were some records from 1710 (I couldn't tell if it was for B,D or M) but these seemed to be the Hebrew pages and there was quite a lot of bleed-through.  Then the date skipped into the mid-1750's where I found Abraham.  The early part was really a jumble of info and I was wishing there was a note to say exactly what these records comprised of. 

I'll see what I can get for you to have a play with.

I'm going back to find some Norsa's and Finzi's (of which there were heaps of entries).  I'll see if the Family History Library has the facility to photocopy the screen...otherwise I'll take my camera.

Thank you for your interest!

Cheers
Kate