Help needed re Fisher/Russell/Anderson

[moonchops]

Hello

I'm really hoping that some kind soul may be able to help me with this one as I've really reached a brick wall.

My gg Grandfather Joseph Sisson Fisher was born in Carlisle, Cumberland 1845. His parents were James and Marion Fisher and are listed on several census as simply being from Scotland.

I used Scotland's people and Familysearch to look for all possible marriages of a James Fisher to a Marion in Scotland between 01 January 1813 -  31 December 1840 and found only entry which listed a Marion Russell. They were married in Glenbuck, Muirkirk 27/08/1824.

Familyseach states on their marriage record that Marion Russell was born in Glenbuck 1803. However, I'm unable to find her birth record at this place. I have used Scotlandspeople and spent a small fortune on searching for Russells. What has really thrown me is that when I sent for my gg grandfather's birth certificate, his parents are listed as James Fisher and Marion Anderson!

I've searched Russells, Andersons, Fishers, imagined all kinds of scenarios where Marion could have married a Russell then James Fisher or perhaps she might have been a Henderson and the enumerator transcribed the certificate incorrectly etc.

I have a feeling in my bones that Marion Russell of Muirkirk is the right person but am unable to connect her to the name Anderson. I'd be really grateful if anyone could suggest anything I could do as I'm really stuck!!

Many thanks,

Mel

[KarieK]

Hi Mel
Do you have James the father's occupation and do you have your ggs sibling names.  Scottish people tended to follow the naming pattern.  Sisson is a family name so your gg would have probably been named after a relative depending on his birth placement in the family ie first son named and the grandfather-paternal, second son named after the maternal grandfather.  It really  didn't matter if they were residing in England the naming pattern was and still is tradition.
Karen

[moonchops]

Hi Karen

Thank you very much for that info, much appreciated. I had no idea about the naming tradition - that's really interesting 

The information that I have on James and Marion is precious little. I know James was born around 1790 and married Marion Russell in Muirkirk.

James Fisher and Marion Russell had Margaret Fisher born 1825 in Muirkirk. They then had Catherine Fisher born 1829. I found Margaret on the 1841 census working as a servant for a Robert Russell but have been unable to connect this Robert Russell to the right Marion Russell so far.

The James and Marion whom I know to definitely be my ggggrandparents had a daughter Mary born in Durham 1836 where James is listed as a pedlar. They then had a daughter Elizabeth also born in Durham in 1838.

James and Marion move to Carlisle and remain there for the rest of their lives. James is listed as a weaver. He died 1859. Marion was listed as a washer woman and died 1870.

As well as Mary and Elizabeth, James and Marion had their first son Thomas Wilson Fisher born 1841 died 1842. (I have found a reference to a James fisher born to a Fisher who's spouse was a Wilson so I did wonder if these could be James's parents?).


Joseph Sisson, my gggrand father, was then born  in 1844.

Joseph Sisson married an Amelia Diggle in Carlisle and had 8 children, 6 lived. I only know the names of the 6 who lived though I do suspect one who died was called Amelia.
The 6 children, in chronological order, are as follows:

John James
Arthur Edward
Henry
Elizabeth Marion
Joseph Sisson
Alice

Young Joseph Sisson moved from Carlisle to Ayrshire and also had a son called Joseph Sisson in 1915.

I found Catherine Fisher living with a Mrs Fisher on the Scottish 1841 census and my Marion Fisher listed as Mary living in Carlisle on the English 1841 census which would suggest the 2 Marions are different people. However, James is not listed as living with the Mary in Carlisle and I do wonder, looking at the really bad handwriting on the 1841 Scottish census, if it really does say Mrs and not Mr...

Aaaaaaaaaagh! it is a nightmare and any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks,

Mel

[KarieK]

Mel
Do you have Joseph Sisson Fisher's death certificate? to compare with his marriage to Amelia for his mother's last name.
Karen

[moonchops]

Hi Karen

I haven't ordered Joseph's death cert as he died in Carlisle and the other certs I have at that time don't show any parental details - unlike the great Scottish certificates which contain loads of useful info. The English certs that I have contain the details of where and when died, sex, age, occupation, cause of death, informant, when registered and registrar only - most annoying!
The wedding cert of Joseph and Amelia 1871 only mentions the father, James Fisher deceased - no mention of the mother 

Thanks,

Mel

[KarieK]

Hi Mel
Having looked over your details again, I think the best route to confirm the parents is to search the siblings of Joseph Sisson the first.  You are certain of Mary & Elizabeth both born in Durham, do you have their marriage details and death certs to see if their mother's name is also Anderson.  I am skeptical about the Fisher/Russell connection, I am thinking that an 1844 birth is a little too late for someone born in the 1790's or even 1803.  Just my thoughts from researching for 20 odd years.
Regards, Karen

[moonchops]

Hi Karen

Thanks again for your reply. I haven't ordered the marriage certs for Elizabeth or Mary as they only contain the Father's details and not the Mother - if only they had been married in Scotland and not England I would have the Mother's information  .

I know what you're saying about the age of Marion and quite agree - I was doubtful but have found her listed on the various census as that age and being the mother of Joseph etc so just presumed she was unfortunate enough to keep having children in her 40s bless her!

Thanks again for taking the time to reply - I do appreciate it.

Mel 

[janecarol]

Hello Mel
I'm quite new to tracing my family tree, but am almost certain that your gg grandad was my gg grandmother's (Mary Fisher b.1836) brother.  She married George Gowling.
Would be really pleased to hear from you.
Jane

[moonchops]

Hi Jane

Thanks ever so much for that! I shall drop you a PM and we can compare notes 

Mel