60th Rifles & Kings Royal Rifles - late 19th century

[Luzzu]

Hi,

 

I am researching my gt, gt grandfather and would like to find out more about his military career.  His name was Tom Buck and he was born 18 Jan 1863 in Croxall, Derbyshire.

He married Harriet Dicks on 23 Dec 1884 at Raglan Barracks, Devonport and his occupation on the marriage certificate was Sergeant 2nd Battalion 60th Rifles.

On the birth certificate of his son, Robert William, in 1886 is occupation was Colour Sergeant KRR and they were living at Thorncliffe Camp.

On his death certificate on 20 Nov 1903, aged 39, his occupation was Colour Sergeant 9th Battalion Kings Royal Rifles.  He died in Winchester and the cause of death was morbus cordis which I believe means heart failure/natural causes but that they weren't really sure.

The final information I have is on his son's marriage certificate in 1910 which describes his father as deceased and a Colour Sergeant 2nd Kings Royal Rifles.

He had six children in total.  One was born in Devonport (1885), one at Thorncliffe Camp (1886) , two in Gibraltar (1892 and 1895) and two in Mallow, Ireland (1897 and 1900).

Any suggestions as to where I can look?  Is it possible to apply for a service record?  Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Luzzu

[km1971]

Hi Luzzu

If he died in service they would have routinely destroyed his papers 20 years later. His widow would have received a pension for 7 years (less if she re-married). After that there would have been no point in keeping it. You can confirm this when Findmypast put surviving pre-1914 papers online (due 2011).

If you can get to Kew you can follow his service using the muster books – WO16 in Kew. Although there aren’t any after c1898. These tell you where he was on the first of each month. His wife’s name and the ages (only – no names) of any children will also be listed. So there may be others who died before being recorded on a census. Also it will tell you when he was promoted. Researching using muster books is time-consuming, and expensive if you cannot do it yourself. If you do go to Kew you can also confirm if his papers have survive, rather than wait for FindMyPast.

Are you sure it says 9th Battalion? They only had four regular battalions. The 9th Battalion were the North Cork Militia based in Mallow. If he served with them he was on the permanent staff as the rank and file militia men only served for a few months a year. Maybe they invalided him back. It looks as if he was transferred to the 9th between 1895 and 1897.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=26

PS... have you found him in 1901? The Irish 1901 Census will be available within a year.

Ken

[Luzzu]

Hi Ken,

 

I think I will have to wait until 2011 for FindMyPast as I am unable to go to Kew myself (I live in Malta).

I have re-checked his death certificate and it says 9th Battalion without a doubt.

He is missing off the 1901 census.  His wife, Harriet, and the children are at 45 Wharf Hill, Winchester and against her occupation it says "Army Pay husband and children".  So presumably he was in Ireland in 1901 (I will keep a look out for the 1901 Ireland Census) and then as you say probably invalided back to Winchester where he died in 1903.

Thank you for your help.

[Jennifer Ings Hathaway]

Hi Luzzu,

Tom Buck is my great grandfather.  His youngest child, Elizabeth, was my grandmother.  Tom died when she was a year old.  I was so interested to find out where he was born from you as I have had no success in my research.  I do have his marriage certificate from my grandmother.  I also have some baptismal certificates for some of his children.  I was hoping to find some information about him from the census' but as of yet have not found anything. 

Harriet Dicks later remarried Mr. Mundy.  I found a lot of info though the census' on his family.  She was born in Ireland and I am having struggles finding information about her and her family too.  My mother just gave me the name of Harriet's sister so I'm going to look down that path shortly.

Did you find any military records at all? 

Let me know what I can do to help you in your research.  Tom and Harriet had nine children.  Maybe we could compare and you could see which ones you are missing?

[km1971]

Hi Both

Tom Buck was in South Africa for the 1901 census fighting in the Boer War. The medal roll is on Ancestry. The first is for the medal with clasps for Cape Colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal

= http://tinyurl.com/TBCCOT

The second is for an additional clasp for South Africa 1901. This was returned to the medal office in 1910.
= http://tinyurl.com/TBSA01

His regimental number was 530 and he was discharged in 1901. If you have Findmypast you can look up other men on the same page on the first link to get an idea of when he sailed for SA. It is likely to be for the guerrilla phase of the war.

Ken

[Luzzu]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for posting the medal roll information.  I have found the two documents on Ancestry.  Its a while since I have done any work on this line of my tree so the medal roll is new information for me.

Appreciate your help.

Luzzu 

[Luzzu]

Hi Jennifer,

Thanks so much for posting.  I am descended from Tom and Harriet through their 2nd child, Robert William who was born in 1886 (my great grandfather).  Since my original posting I have identified all nine of Tom and Harriet's children.  It is very unlikely Tom Buck's  service record will have survived for the reasons Ken has mentioned in his posts.  I have identified Tom Buck in both the 1871 and 1881 census and also have his parents and grandparents.  I have a little information for his great grandparents too but it is very vague and I am quite stuck now.

I have the service record for Robert William Buck and I know James Henry Buck died in India in 1916.

With regard to Harriet's family - I can help with this too.  She was one of seven children and her father, Isaac John Dicks (Rifleman John Dicks), was also a soldier in the 60th Rifles (joined in 1854).  He died in 1874 in Rawal Pindee, India (on the eve of his departure for England).  Sadly his service records were also destroyed, I believe because he died in service.  Harriet's sister, Mary Susannah Dicks married Sgt Major Tom Buchanan and all six of their sons served with the 60th.

I am happy to help and compare notes with you.  Probably, rather than go totally "off topic" on this thread, it might be better if we use the "Personal Message" (PM) system on Rootschat.  You need to make three posts on Rootschat before I can send you a PM so if you post a couple of replies on this thread, as soon as I see you have three posts I will contact you.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Luzzu 

[Claudia Oliver]

Hi, if anyone on this thread is still picking up messages please can you post back. I am researching my mothers direct line from a daughter of Robert William Buck and would love to talk to those involved in this research.

Many thanks!

Claudia

[Luzzu]

Hi Claudia,

It seems we are distantly related  .  Will send you a PM.

Luzzu