Birth - same name - same year - same quarter - same place

[Valda]

Hi

Possibly because he married just as William.
He is in St Saviour Southwark in 1871 unmarried which narrows it down if they tied the knot before the birth of the first known child.

Regards

Valda

[Eyesee]

How about this marriage
Christchurch, Spitalfields
1875 May 16
William COLLINS, 28, bachelor, labourer, Lamb St, father John Collins, labourer
Emma HALE, 25, spinster, -, Lamb St, father John Elias Hale, bricklayer
Married after Banns
He made his mark, she signed the register in the presence of James Bonney, Eliza Hale.

There was an Emma HALE born at Colchester in 1850, mother Mary Ann, who was married to Thomas LYES in 1855. At St Giles Colchester in 1861 and 1871.

William in 1871 was a lodger with a James HALE and family all born Colchester. Interestingly they had a daughter Emma, but she was only 11.

Ian C

[Trouble]

Hi,

Thank you for info, been to library today .. think you may have found right surname .. not sure about the marriage tho .. using info you provided found

Emma dau of Mary Ann Hale on 1851 census b Ipswich
on 1861 census after Mary Ann has married Thomas Lyes Emma appears as Dau in law b Colchester .. likewise on 1871
Emma wife of William Collins appears on 1881..1891..and 1901 census as b in Colchester ...
but on 1911 census gives her b place as Ipswich ...

Seems to have gone full circle ... can understand why she always put down Colchester as she was living there from the age of 1 ... but what do you think made her change so late in life ..

regards Steve

[Trouble]

Extra

Think might even have found the father .....

On 1851 census Mary Ann Hale down as unmarried ... dau Jane 11? Emma 1 and a lodger John Bakewell

On 1861 Mary Ann now married to Thomas Lyes ... dau in laws Jane 14, Emma 11 and Hannah 8

Found reg on BMD index for Hannah Hale b 1853 Colchester ... found a Jane Bakewell Hale b 1847 Colchester and interestingly an Emma Bakewell b 1850 Ipswich

also a John Bakewell d mar quarter 1855 Colchester ...  Mary Ann married dec quarter 1855

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated

[gfever]

You won't be expecting a reply on this post over a year after the last one.  I wasn't even a member of Rootsweb but was searching for Lyes and Colchester when this thread came up - so I have joined.

I have spent the last week trying to unravel my wife's great-grandmothers parentage.  She was Hannah Hale sister, or at least probably half-sister of your Emma.  I was in Essex Records office yesterday and Jane, Emma and Hannah were all Baptised without a father's name.  I believe that one of the other contributors was correct that a John Bakewell was living with Mary Ann Hale in 1851 and was probably Jane's and Emma's father - but they were both baptised on 5 Sep 1852 with no mention of a father.  I suspect that Mary Ann had, by then someone else in her life who turned out to be Hannah's (born 1853) father and then in 1855 she went on to marry Thomas Lyes.

I have also been a little mystified by the references to Emma being born in Ipswich.  I have looked for Emma's birth record and there are a few candidates which were all born in the Sudbury area (about equidistant from Ipswich and Colchester.  Certainly at her Baptism in 1852 she was back in Colchester but it is not impossible that Mary Ann moved briefly to the Sudbury area (which is not that far from Colchester - but in Suffolk) fell with Emma, and then quickly returned to her roots in Colchester.  It is possible that Emma only needed a birth certificate late in life and discovered the anomaly.

Anyway, enough from me on a subject that you have probably forgotten about.

Graham

[Valda]

Hi gfever


Welcome to Rootschat

Checking Trouble's profile they haven't been on Rootschat since early June 2010 so they may not see your post. In the meantime feel free to look around Rootschat and see if there is anything you would like help with or contribute to and just post.

Regards

Valda

[gfever]

Thanks for the info,  Graham