Please translate writing on back of old photo

[Gillg]

Joan

The Sütterlin site is good fun, though the letters aren't quite the same as Fraktur and are much more rounded.

I've done quite a bit of work which involved translating handwritten documents in Fraktur, but this one is defeating me.   Can I respectfully disagree with your suggestions?

Yes, I think the first letter is an A.

I don't think the last 4 letters on the top line read Saam.  I think it starts with a G, then a vowel, possibly e, then b e? h and possibly rem, which is why I hoped it would be a place name or another surname.

I'm sure the second on the top line is a capital S, not V, which tempts me into thinking that it's a rather shaky version of Saam.  The handwriting looks like that of an elderly person.

Still working on it...

Gillg

[Peonie]

That first letter could also be a H (see here: http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei2.htm) , The next ones e b . Did they write Hebamme with an h in the middle? I also think it is A. Saam.

I keep coming back all the time trying to work out what it could be.

Peonie

[AcadianJoan]

Gill - You can respectfully disagree with my suggestions all you want!! Especially if you put a nice smiley face next to the words.

I think you are probably right, the second letter does look more like an S than V.

I loved the link you sent Peonie. That was definitely worth bookmarking.

If the person in the photo is the same one who wrote on the back, then I estimate she was over 60 years old. So she could have a shaky hand.

I think the theory of the words being: A. Saam, a location and then a date are very sensible. I'm going to work with that theory today and try to find place names that might work. I'll post when I get results.

Thank you very, very much for your help!! I could not have gotten even this far without you!

Joan

[Gillg]

No, I haven't seen "Hebamme" (= midwife) written with an h in the middle.  But if it could somehow be manipulated into Hebamme, what would that indicate?  That A Saam was midwife at the birth of the lady in the picture on the name mentioned, or that she was herself a midwife by profession?

I know we are talking about an RC lady here and I'm wandering from the case in hand, but I am reminded that Jewish birth certificates used to include the name of the midwife and also, in the case of boys, the name of the circumcisor or Mohel.  Don't know if they still do, as the stuff I was translating was pre 1930s.

Like you, Peonie, I keep coming back to this.

Gillg

Joan

Just seen your message 

[Peonie]

Some of the RC Church books I looked at do have the name and signature of the midwife. She states what kind of  birth it was, easy or hard or if the baby died.

A pity we can't find out who was born on 4. March 1814 as the church books for 1798 - 1824 are missing.

Perhaps the last word does qualify which Anna Saam as there are many and they did use Wilhelm's Latin name of Guilielmum.

Off to bed, I am sure I will be dreaming about this.

Peonie

[AcadianJoan]

I have read both of your new posts Gillg and Peonie. Thanks so much for continuing to come back to my picture.

That midwife theory is very interesting. Never heard of that but you learn something new every day!!

I posted this picture first on the picture dating section of the group. They know it was taken after 1874 as that date is stamped on the back. I am pretty sure my Anna Strohmeier was born in 1814. So I don't think she would have been old enough to be a midwife for the lady pictured. She could however have been a midwife herself. Not sure how I'd find that out....

I'm thinking that this lady who scribbled those words on the back of the photo had no idea what a ruckus she would cause 50 years later!! I wish she had given it some thought and wrote neater for us, don't you?

Anyway, I have been looking into town names the begin with Geb or Geh. I found a Gehsen, which so far is the closest I have come. I don't think that's it but I'll throw it out there. I'll keep looking too.

Peonie you stated (correctly) that Frankenthal was French about the time the woman was born. I can't think of any French towns that begin with Geb or Geh. Perhaps the word is the German variant of a French town? Not sure how to go about looking for those names though...

Thank you again very much for your time, thoughts and dreams in your case Peonie!!

Joan

[Gillg]

Hi Joan and Peonie 

As a last desperate measure I'm taking the image along to my local German Club on Friday.  Maybe one of the older Germans there will be able to help!

Gillg

[AcadianJoan]

That's excellent!!

Please thank them for me.

Can't wait to hear....

Joan

[Peonie]

Good luck for Friday Gillg.

Peonie