hi gary , not been on this for a while , seen your post about william hillain rice ...that was my nans brother , she spoke about him often, they were separated when they were young because there mother died and the father couldnt look after the kids , my nan was put into a convent to be looked after by nuns , she never new she had a brother because she was so young going into care till later in life when he came to her door and said ..hello im your brother ...her nieces came up to visit her from johnstone a few times , she loved them all dearly , my nan passed away in 2000 , my nan was mary (rice) west , she was taken out of the convent when she was around 11 or 12 so she could look after her grandparents , she had a miserable childhood coz she had to do all the washing and cleaning for the grandparents and the aunts would get her to do some odd jobs as well ,on top of that she would go out washing stairs to bring money into the house...she lived to the good age of 88 and 11 months ..still miss her x