BMD's certificates

[FraserandFraser]

Some of you have it right some so wrong.

What Stanmapstone said is correct. The only way to get the original is to apply to the local RO, the cut and paste job done by the GRO in Southport is from a microfilm copy of the original transcript, or if they are using MAGPIE a computer scan of, the microfilm copy, of the original transcript.

I unlike most people I don't think that the GRO indexes are that bad, and have lots of errors, or things missing. I also don't think that the quarterly returns were that bad. I don't think that there are many missing entries, I don't however believe in rouge entries and if something is in the index then is should exist and it best to check in a local RO if the GRO claims so.

Not all RO will give you a copy of the original, some will write it by hand, some will use a photocopier (with a mask to cover the other bits of the original page), some can computer scan it, others only have transcripts them selves especially when dealing with marriages as the original is held in the church; it just depends on the RO.

Keziahemm, I think what you do is make it hard for every one and the reason why the local RO want to charge more. It takes probably 10 mins max to find a birth or death cert, as in most RO's there will only be 1/2 a dozen sub districts to search per year to locate the entry. However it could take several hours to look through the 100's of churches to locate a marriage. It may be nice to see the original occasionly but unless it is really needed it takes up a huge amount of time to apply for marriages at local RO's .

[stanmapstone]

Under the Registration Act the Register General provided Marriage Register Books in Duplicate to all the registered and certified places of marriage. The duplicate entries were to be made by the clergyman immediately after the marriage ceremony and signed by him, and by the parties married, and by two witnesses. When each register was filled, one copy was to remain with the other registers and records of the church, and one copy with the superintendent registrar.  It is from these duplicate registers held by the Registrar  that you get photocopies with the original signatures.
Just to clarify that it is just the quarterly returns that are copied out in full by the clergyman, including signatures, and these are sent to the GRO.

Stan

[Keziahemm]

Keziahemm, I think what you do is make it hard for every one and the reason why the local RO want to charge more. It takes probably 10 mins max to find a birth or death cert, as in most RO's there will only be 1/2 a dozen sub districts to search per year to locate the entry. However it could take several hours to look through the 100's of churches to locate a marriage. It may be nice to see the original occasionly but unless it is really needed it takes up a huge amount of time to apply for marriages at local RO's

I think your statement is unfair, you have assumed I didn't have the details for the marriage; in some cases where I've ordered marriage certificates from a local office I've had their own reference, i.e. some of the information from the actual registers has been transcribed, indexed and is searchable online.  In other cases, information has been obtained from Family History Societies who have been involved in the transcribing of registers held by The Registrar (my local society has transcribed 1837-2004), therefore the Church is known   -  perhaps I've been lucky in this respect the ones I've obtained have been indexed!

I wouldn't ask or expect the staff at the local office to search hundreds of churches for me!

When ordering from local office I've never paid more than £7.00 plus sae. 

Susan

[Subaru]

Keziahemm, I think what you do is make it hard for every one and the reason why the local RO want to charge more.

I thought it was a bit harsh as well

[Arranroots]

Keziahemm, I think what you do is make it hard for every one and the reason why the local RO want to charge more. It takes probably 10 mins max to find a birth or death cert, as in most RO's there will only be 1/2 a dozen sub districts to search per year to locate the entry. However it could take several hours to look through the 100's of churches to locate a marriage. It may be nice to see the original occasionly but unless it is really needed it takes up a huge amount of time to apply for marriages at local RO's

I think your statement is unfair, you have assumed I didn't have the details for the marriage; in some cases where I've ordered marriage certificates from a local office I've had their own reference, i.e. some of the information from the actual registers has been transcribed, indexed and is searchable online.  In other cases, information has been obtained from Family History Societies who have been involved in the transcribing of registers held by The Registrar (my local society has transcribed 1837-2004), therefore the Church is known   -  perhaps I've been lucky in this respect the ones I've obtained have been indexed!

I wouldn't ask or expect the staff at the local office to search hundreds of churches for me!

When ordering from local office I've never paid more than £7.00 plus sae. 

Susan

Very harsh!

F&F I think an apology might be in order - Keziahemm is one of the nicest, most considerate people you could wish to meet and the suggestion that she might in some way be making life more difficult for ROs (or commercial outfits like yours??) is very wide of the mark.

I know her well and can vouch for her in this regard!

I am sure you didn't wish to offend, but maybe you could consider the effect of your words before generalising on public boards?

Thank you!

[FraserandFraser]

may be a little harsh, sorry

But the reason to apply for a cert through the GRO and not locally still stand.

If you have only paid £7 for a cert and your RO has full transcribed indexes then you are one of the lucky few.

It is no longer possible for local RO to function as loss making organisations hence more and more are combining to form large county offices and it is just imposable to get a decent service from them, and why they all try to introduce priority fees. I recently paid almost £50 for a birth cert I had to search for my self and then wait 2 hours once I found it for it to be written out. ( it only took me 3 mins to find the cert, I had a discussion with the receptionist about how long it would take to do)

the facts remain that people do ask RO to do searches.

[Blue-Spirit]

Thanks Keziahemm.
I have recently emailed my local RO, and yet to get a reply, so perhaps a phone call is needed. I for one would much prefer a copy of the original, as suggested it gives you the original signiture etc, much beeter than a newly written one...
Personally i can't see why the charges would be any different, surley it takes far longer to had write the certificate than it does to photocopy one... But who knows with these local councils now adays...

For birth and death certificates I apply to the GRO, for marriage certificates to the local office asking for a scan of the original register entry if possible.  In most cases this has been supplied and in the long format, its so good to be able to see the actual signatures of bride, groom and witnesses. 

Obviously it depends on the office concerned, as Stan said not all offices have the facilities.

Susan 

[Subaru]

I've ordered certificates from my local RO, for it to turn up in the post a couple of days later.  Whereas ordering from the GRO can take weeks.  Why would I want to order a certificate from the GRO, miles away, when I can order the same certificate from the RO three minutes down the road from me?
I'm sure things will probably change in the future, but the staff are never anything but helpful when I visit, and really put themselves out.  It feels better knowing the certificate actually came from my local office as well.

And if I'm making it hard for everyone Fraser

[andycand]

Personally i can't see why the charges would be any different, surley it takes far longer to had write the certificate than it does to photocopy one... But who knows with these local councils now adays...

Unfortunately its not as simple as photocopying, for births and deaths the Register page contains several entries. You have to scan the page onto a computer, crop the other entries on the page and then print out in certificate form. Whether this would be by using a template already on the computer or printing directly to a blank certificate I'm not sure. Also, when scanning care has to be taken not to damage the original register.

Andy