Illegitimate G G grandad

[Kaz1960]

Hi all
I am new to RC and been having a good look around. I can see there are lots of knowledgeable people here (thank goodness !)
I would like help please to find more info on Charles Knights father if possible.
I have his birth cert dated 3 Dec 1842 registered in Hoxne. Birth in the sub district of Stradbroke in the counties of Suffolk & Norfolk. Mother is Eliza Knights (b1824 Mendham)signed with a mark, no father mentioned. She later married a William Leist on 21 April 1846 at Withersdale and had another son Samuel Leist in 1847. On 1851 and 1861 census records Charles' name is listed as Leist (this caused me no end of trouble working out he was the same man). He started using his real name on 1871 census.
I found baptism records at Rushall St Marys on 4 July 1847 for both Charles and Samuel. Charles' father is listed as being Charles Poppy. A few searches (I am not that experienced though) revealed a few Charles Poppy's living around Hoxne at the time of Charles' birth. One was married to an Elizabeth and the other may have been his father as he was somewhat older. I just read a post where it was suggested to look in bastardy records but I have no idea how to go about this? Would I look in Hoxne where Charles was born or at Ushall St Marys where he was baptised? I would just like to find out the story behind his birth. (curious)
Thanks in advance
Kaz

[tedscout]

Hi Kaz,

Just before I go any further I just want to say - you may never find the "real" father. So keep that in the back of your mind.

However as Charles was born December 1842 and the average pregnancy time is 9 months. He would have been conceived around about 12 months after the census was taken in 1841.

Have you tried to find Eliza in the 1841 Cencus. She may have lived near or in the house of the father.

If the baptism mentions a Charles Poppy as the father you may find him living near Eliza in 1841.

I'm about to cook dinner so I cant help tonight, but I will have a look at the 1841 Census for you some time soon.

Cheers, Ted

[tedscout]

You might find this article interesting

http://www.pricegen.com/resources/illegitimacy.htm

 

[Kaz1960]

Thank you Ted, that was very informative. I will try to search for anything, no matter how small.
I did find a  possiblility for Eliza in 1841 -
a farm servant in Hoxne, Stradbroke aged 17.
ref; HO107/1026/6 31 p 18
I can't confirm it's her though. Thanks so much for your help
 

[tedscout]

I think I have found Eliza in 1841. She is a servant working for a Robert Howes and his family. Robert is a carpenter

So far I haven't found a Charles Poppy on the same census but I have found a great deal of the Rose family  

Will search for Charles and let you know what I find

Cheers, Ted

[tedscout]

I found same person Kaz. This is the closest

I'm waiting for pastry to thew out so I thought I'd come back and try to help for a while

[matt94]

Hello,

If you manage to see the Overseer's records for Hoxne (that would be the most likely place to find them) then you may find a bastardy order, a bit like this one:

17 Jan 1833
Henry Gregory, Labourer of Chievely, is the reputed father of female bastard child of Phoebe Sellwood, born at Chievely on 22 Dec 1832. He is to pay £1 towards lying-in, and 10/- expenses, then 1/8 weekly. Phoebe Sellwood to pay 1/- weekly while child charged to Parish.
George Burgess, JP,
William Mount, JP
Edward Brice Bunny, JP.

Although I am not sure if Overseers records stretch to 1846, I hope you find something.

Matt

[behindthefrogs]

The problem is that the responsibilities for the poor passed from the parishes to the poor law unions in 1834 and at that time the role of overseer of poor ceased to exist.

You may however find some useful information in the records of the appropriate union and pssobly in the records of the local courts.

David.

[Greensleeves]

In the 1841 census there is a Charles Poppy at Woodton, Norfolk which is less than 20 miles away from Stradbroke.  (HO107 779 21 p.20).

In the 1851 there is a Charles Pappy (which has a possible correction to Poppy) who is in Islington with wife and children, but who was born in Withersdale, Suffolk.  (HO107 1500 358 p30) 

Regards,
Greensleeves