My Granny CLARKE

[Lin Up a Tree]

Phew, excellent re: the tree! 

Sorry for detailing the kids you knew about, just wanted to make a bit clearer where Jane was at (geographically and otherwise) once William had died, in hopes of narrowing down a 2nd marriage date & place.

Hope this is not stating the obvious, but you mentioned you "found Joseph", does this mean have you managed to sight his birth cert?

[mum mum]

Hi Lin

Joseph is on the Ancestry tree, I can't get a reply from the tree owner who put his actual date of birth so I don't know where she has got that info. i presume he was her Grandfather so they know his birthday.
I have had a search on NSW BDM for possible illegitimate births, Mary and Elizabeth would be they only two possibilities [based on their age] and nothing shows up.
I have searched NSW for marriages and deaths for Mary Holmes of William and Jane.
Also searched for Sarah Holmes or Clarke, Henry or Harry Holmes or Clarke not having any luck.

The other children were all born arund Tumut/ Adelong so I have contacted the Family History group there to see if they can find anything. Maybe I need to put some letters into local papers looking for descendants.

i will be off line for most of the evening after about 6.30 as I have to work tonight but will get back to this over the weekend.
mum mum

[Lin Up a Tree]

Great idea Mum Mum re: contacting the local family history group! Do hope you have some luck with that avenue.

In the meantime: some notes about Joseph John HOLMES that I've found --
(pieces to the puzzle in case)

Not sure whether you have seen the private Ancestry 'tree'/notes that come up in a search there for "Joseph John Holmes d. 1963" the one with the title that says "Joseph John Holmes Clark // 'who is father is'"? Maybe someone to contact if you've not seen it.


Checked the NAA website and it seems Joseph also served in WW1, you can see his service record on the NAA site http://www.naa.gov.au/
According to that, he was 39yrs + 1 month on 1st Feb 1916.;
that gives his birthdate as roughly 1st Jan 1877, which supports the earlier 24th Dec 1876 birthdate.

Interestingly, he gives next of kin there as his mother "Jane HOLMES, Bethangra VIC" - in 1915.
Wonder why not Jane CLARKE...?

(More about him also by the way on the AWM website: http://www.awm.gov.au/research/people/all/?Name=joseph+john+holmes&ServiceNumber=&Unit=&Conflict=All+conflicts)

However, according to the NSW BDM index (deaths):
10552/1963  HOLMES  JOSEPH JOHN  WILLIAM JAMES  JANE ELIZABETH  TUMUT,
so this death cert says his father was William, who died 1yr+2mths before 24th Dec 1876.

Then, I did a Google search for "Holmes, Joseph John", and his record came up here:
http://www.monaropioneers.com/Descendant-reports/AIF%20Volunteers.pdf
... giving his birth details as "1873, Gundagai NSW"! Also says there he died April 15 1963, buried in Batlow cemetery.

[mum mum]

Thanks,

Yes I have been able to contact one of the tree owners, unfortunately the one who seems to be closely connected to him is no responding.

I had a look at his war record which I had not searched for yet, he won a Military Medal for bravery as a stretcher bearer.

I dont think that Jane ever m arried Henry Clarke, perhaps Joseph was estranged from his mother.
Maybe Henry Clarke had deserted them or something like that and Joseph used his mothers name.

Joseph certainly didnt know where his mother was living when he enlisted. She was living at Granya, not Bethanga, close but different towns.
Next step is to try to find agrave inscription from Batlow or buy his death cert to check his children.

Lin up a tree, I see you are researching Holmes also. Where were your Holmes from?
Our william who die in 1876 came from Norfolk but I haven't been able to pin down exactly where or who his family were.
mum mum

[Lin Up a Tree]

Such a shame re: the tree owners not replying yet    Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
 
That was very cool to read about Joseph's medal, wasn't it!  Think you may be onto something re: the story surrounding the family.
 
Re: Holmes --
My line originated in Devon in the mid-1700s, though before that don't know. My gx2-grandmother (also Jane Holmes :*) ) was born in London but went back to Devon for a while & then out to Sydney on her own to meet up with + marry her sweetheart when she was 22. (She married him 2 days after getting off the ship! :*) )

Re: Your William (James?) HOLMES --
Ah, I see! I wonder, do you have any extra clues other than those on his death cert? (i.e. Born Norfolk England, emigrated to NSW c.1845)
On those rough details he would have been young, aged about 15 when he came out here...

[mum mum]

Hi again,

My William Holmes is still a mystery, I did find on ships record for a plough boy who arrived from Norfolk about the right time. I have seached the English census for a William Holmes in Norfolk who was on the 1841 census and disapeared after that. it left me with two possibilities. One of Francis and Mary in Upwell looked promising as William named his first daughter Mary but there is no way of being sure. I am hoping that if I get some of the childrens birth certificates they may give a place of birth in Norfolk.
I have just sent a etter to the editor of the Tumut and Adelong Times hoping to find some connections up that way.

mum mum

[Nat40]

Hello Mum Mum, just stumbled across this site.. I have been researching my partners family tree for a while with limited success until recently.  I befriended a distant cousin of his on Facebook who has been researching with her father.  Anyway my ancestor's name was William Saddler who married Esther Vincent.  I have been looking for Saddlers and unable to find anything.  My informant then solved some of the mystery for me by saying that Williams mother was Ellen Saddler and she gave her name to her son.. He said she had then disappeared and William was raised by his maybe father Edward "Ned' Holmes. 
I have since been researching the Holmes family and found on Rootsweb where someone has written that Ned Holmes found an Aboriginal child in the Gundagai floods of 1888 and raised it as his own.  Now I am totally confused.  It also shows where Ellen and Ned had numerous children together so she obviously didn't disappear.... This Aboriginal child has got to be my William I am sure but I don't know what to believe anymore   Any help anyone can give me will be gratefully received.

[mum mum]

Hi Nat,

Rootschaters can be very helpful in finding lost people and sorting out family mysteries.

I suggest that you start a new topic about your William Sadler and his family.
Go back to the forum, to the Australian board and at the top of the board is a tab for 'new topic'. Use his name and date of birth as a topic perhaps, then give what details you do know about him and what you can't find. Try to be as clear as possible and don't be insulted if people give you information you already have or ask heaps of questions. They all mean well and some of the people are fantastic at finding information.
mum mum
P.S. I look forward to seeing your post.

[mum mum]

Hi again Nat,

I was just looking at my family tree and see that my Edward Holmes died in Condobolin, I do have a contact address for a cousin who's Grandfather is over that way and may remember something about the family. I will send you a personal message with my email address and we can talk privately about it.
mum mum