Brennan family of Finglas

[kristof]

Hello,

I hoping that someone might be able to help me fill in some gaps in the history of some of the Brennan family from Finglas.  This is a long post, so apologies in advance, but there is a fair bit to cover, both what i know and what i don't know.  Firstly, I’m based in Australia so I am unable to visit Dublin and have been relying only upon what I can access over the internet and with a phone call.  This is a severe limitation but I’ve been making some progress.  I’ve run into a few dead ends and was hoping to see if there was anyone who could give me a nudge along.

I'm trying to find more information on members of the family of John Brennan of Finglas East.  I've found the 1911 Census record for the household and while that's been useful its left some gaps in our knowledge.  Firstly there is no street name recorded, just house number 15, Finglas East.  Is there any way to determine an exact street address?  I’ve looked dup Griffiths, etc.  Because John Brennan is such a common name I can’t find a death date or burial record as I have no idea when he died.

Primarily my search is for information on three individuals; Francis Brennan (image attached), Ann Brennan (nee O’Shaunessy) and Charles Brennan.  Francis Brennan, youngest son of John Brennan.  Francis is my wife's grandfather; my father in law, Francis' son actually knew very little about his father.  Francis died in 1955, aged 55, when my father in law was only 10, so he never really got to find out much about him. He knew that Francis was a participant in the War of Independence and Civil War but the only detail that we have is contained within two items, an obituary and a short letter.

Remainder removed for corrections.

[kristof]

Removed temporarily for corrections

[kristof]

Removed temporarily for corrections

[shanew147]

...I'm trying to find more information on members of the family of John Brennan of Finglas East.  I've found the 1911 Census record for the household and while that's been useful its left some gaps in our knowledge.  Firstly there is no street name recorded, just house number 15, Finglas East.  Is there any way to determine an exact street address?  I’ve looked dup Griffiths, etc.  Because John Brennan is such a common name I can’t find a death date or burial record as I have no idea when he died.....

I presume that this is the Brennan family you mentioned : Brennan Family - Finglas East

Finglas East is located just to the East of the Finglas town and is a townland of 327 acres (see the townland database at : http://thecore.com/seanruad), rather than a road, so there are no house numbers - if you look at the reverse of the census form you will see that the house/street number is blank.  You can look at the area on a map on the OSI website at : Ordanance Survey Map (select the Historic B&W option) The area looks to be a rural setting, which would fit with the Brennan family's occupations.

There's a Patrick Brennan listed on Griffiths (dated 1849) in the same townland leasing 'House, Office and Yard' from a Jos. Duffy esq. M.D. .... .. could be connected ? 

Some Brennan listings from Thom's directory :

  1914 - Joseph Brennan , farmer in Finglas but no John Brennan
  1904  - Patrick Brennan, farmer in Finglas ... (only Brennan listed in Finglas)
  1894 & 1884  - Patrick Brennan, , farmer in Finglas 
 (the directory does not list Ag. Labourers etc.)



Shane

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

Delighted you put up so much information.

I'm from Finglas (only a couple of generations) But I've very often heard Charlies name.
Unfortunately I just came across the same info you found in the Erin's Isle book.

From what I heard about Irish soldiers being decorated, it seems he was very lucky that what he did, was acknowledged. I read somewhere that if there wasn't an officer that witnessed the act of bravery it went unrewarded. It sounded that many brave solders were overlooked.
When I came across that picture it occurred to me the the picture itself may have been the proof that he deserved decoration.  Maybe the British archive have info on the criteria or witness. That may help find out was the picture actually the proof.
But your relation that contacted Kew may have exhausted all leads to more details about the picture.

I don't know if there are still relations here in Finglas. I know someone who remembers Charlie, as a neighbour, I'm not sure if he's well up on his service or the republican  history in the family.  But maybe he knows someone who does.

I don't know whether you will find this disheartening or not, but I've heard other rootschatters mention a year wait when it come to getting info about the Pension Application. So I don't think you've been forgotten.
Now that's (i think) in Galway, but the Dublin military archive give you lots of help.
I would recommend if you actually phone them. They are so helpful over the phone. If there is anything out there that you haven't found yet they'll help you.
Here's a link to contact them.
http://www.military.ie/dfhq/archives/contact.htm

I know you probably already gave that a go.

[kristof]

Hello and thank you all for your replies,

Thanks shanew147, that's the family i'm trying to work on; the Francis (age 11) mentioned is my wife's grandfather.  Turns out from talking to her elderly uncle last night that there was an older daughter who had married and moved out of before the Census, by the name of Margaret; married name was Kilfeather and moved to Sligo. Will have to start work on her soon. 

Hello Smokestoomuch, thanks, yes, there are still relations in and around Finglas, but they are all quite elderly now and we are not in regular touch with their children (the perils of being on the other side of the world i suppose).  It seems that many people remember Charlie Brennan and i think that he was a "local character".  But, as you say, the problem is proving the link between the photo and the person.  It seems to be accepted locally that the photo is Charlie; and i hear that there is a framed copy of the photo on the wall at Erins Isle labled as Charlie Brennan.  So, its not news to the residents of Finglas that its Charlie.

I have also heard that it may take a year to get a response from pensions; lets hope we're lucky and its not that long.

I have been in touch with the Bureau of Military History, trying to get them interested and trying to see if they might take up the case to prove that this famous photo is actually a Finglas local boy.  However, they have expressed no interest.   My impression is that due to political and historical sensativities it is relatively recently that there has been an appreciation and reevaluation of the role of Irishmen in WW1.  I was told by another source that the Bureau is basically only interested in the history of the Irish Army, post the foundation of the Republic only. 

On another note, would someone be able to look up a grave in the old graveyard in Finglas?  There is a Brennan family plot in the old graveyard in Finglas, the one with the ruined church.  My father in law and his older brother told me that there is a plot where their father is buried, along with several other Brennan ancestors.  There is a headstone with all the names of the half dozen or more Brennans interred there, with their father, Francis Brennan, being the last to be buried in that plot. They thought that the dates went back to the early 1800's or so.   They saw it last about 2 years ago when they were both back in Finglas for their sister's funeral. 
 
If anyone would have time to locate this grave and transcribe the names and dates it would be really much appreciated? It would help immensely with my research to have the names and dates of the earlier generations.

Christopher

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

The graveyard is just down the road. I drop in some Sunday after Christmas.

There is a incomplete listing on the net.
http://www.interment.net/ireland/index.htm
No Brennans
The only worry is, is it the ones that are unreadable that are not on that list.

Yes you're right the military archive would have nothing really to do with WW1. Don't let that put you off.
But the Brennans in the IRA would be what they would be helpful with.
I imagine, that escape tunnels and hungerstriking, it's all serious stuff, they'll have stuff to tell you.
One option is to look for a witness statement of someone who was involved in the same activies. Might be hard doing it from where you are but I'd quiz them over the phone again. They might come up with something.

[kristof]

Hello Smokestoomuch, thanks for that, much appreciated.  My father in law told me that 2 years ago the headstone was in good condition, that the names and dates were legible.  So here's hoping that nothing has happened to it since. 

In the meantime i've been making some small progress in tracking down some of the older brennan names, possible some that are buried in the family plot.

Yes, i'll try a phone call about the witness statements and see if they can help me out that way.

Would anyone have any suggestions about how to locate the birth parents of Annie O'Shaughnessy/O'Shaunessy?  As i mentioned above, she was fostered/adopted by Elizabeth McEvoy of Finglas.  My father in law was telling me that they lived at "Finglas Bridge", just before the village itself.  I've found the census record for the household but it doesn't help me with Annie's parentage, just says she was born in Dublin, would have been about 1904.  She married Francis Brennan in 1926,; would her parents names be recorded on the marriage certificate (if she knew them)?
Cheers

[shanew147]

...Would anyone have any suggestions about how to locate the birth parents of Annie O'Shaughnessy/O'Shaunessy?  As i mentioned above, she was fostered/adopted by Elizabeth McEvoy of Finglas.  My father in law was telling me that they lived at "Finglas Bridge", just before the village itself.  I've found the census record for the household but it doesn't help me with Annie's parentage, just says she was born in Dublin, would have been about 1904.  She married Francis Brennan in 1926,; would her parents names be recorded on the marriage certificate (if she knew them)?

marriage cert should show her father's name & occupation, mothers are not mentioned on Irish Civil marriage Certs... not sure in this case if she would show details on  her birth or foster father ?

from the Familysearch civil index - these look to be the correct index details required to order a cert fom the GRO :

 Name: Francis Brennan
 Registration district: Dublin North
 Record type: Marriage
 quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1926
 Volume: 2 / Page: 221

 Name: Annie O'Shaughnessy
 [same index details]


Shane