Matlock for Next Clue? - Cornelius Fulwood (Ilkeston)

[acorngen]

Carol,

That as come down in real terms.  6 years ago was 4.50 for a month and yes you paid 4.50 for the fiche reader as well so am pleased to see they dropped that. 

Rob

[dobfarm]

Hi

Very detailed, informative and most likely true!  but compared to travel cost over 3 hours away from Matlock! LDS Libraries are a cheap alternative. Archives and library free look up service differ a lot and are much more flexable.
ie;-Derby Library


LDS as an Index reference only!! to check from. Bottom line is both correct or incorrect submission entries dates and location that can be checked is better than no info to work from. LDS is only a guide and accept all in it to check from!! or a start point. LDS info was for their own use to re baptise and ancestry first and formost.

As LDS turning people away is not part of the Mormon religion as they want people to try and convert into their religion or at least open their door too people.  There will always be odd cases  that get turn away & needs reporting to Salt lake city Provo Utah USA. My own view is to help and find not argue over LDS

Dobby ( Not Dobbie)

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[Ashie1973]

There is a removeal order from Ilkeston dated 1816 to Bilborough, Nottingham for this family. Ref RM7 516
John FULWOOD,
Amy wife,
Sarah,
Thomas,
William,
Alice, Henry,
Cornelius,
Moses. 

Thanks for this Carol, I think this as helped a lot. I am still looking to confirm that my Cornelius Fulwood is the one listed here with John being his father.  Where I am at now is I have checked the original document which gives the children's ages, and that all links correctly with my Cornelius. On Family Search there is a Pedigree File (no film Batch reference) which links all these children to the same parents, John Fulwood/Fullard and Anne Beardsley, so this suggests it is the right family. However, the only question is over the wife's name. The Pedigree files list Anne Beardsley, the poor law document says Amy.

So I think, and correct me if I am wrong guys, my next step is to gain access to the Pedigree Resource File CD #46 to see if the lady that submitted the pedigree files to Family Search as sourced her work. It was the same lady that submitted the info on all the children, she gives their DOB, Marriage Dates and with all the marriages links the parents which is what I am trying to prove for Cornelius.

The only remaining question then is on the names. The Poor Law order lists Fulwood correctly, however on the Family Search and the 1841 census all the Children put their name as Fullard, but all were back to Fulwood (or Fullwood) by time the 1851 census came around.  So my question is why they name change for all of them?  Would that have been to get around the poor law removal order to return back to Ilkeston where they were all listed in 1841? If they were all spelling their name wrong, they all corrected it by 1851.

Thanks, Ashley

[sunflower]

Hi Ashley

Glad to hear you got the Removal Order.

My advice would be to check the original PR's.  Both the PR's and BT's are available to rent for 3 months.  You might find the baptism of John and Amy/Ann which might hold some clues to the name changes. On the IGI Ilkeston is only covered from 1813 to 1835
I have Ilkeston Phillimore marriages and there are a couple more Fullard marriage.  The one for John Fullard & Ann Beadsley say he was a coalminer
I don't pay too much attention to pedigree files after I found one of my ancestors had died about 30 years before he actually did. 

Carol

[acorngen]

Ashley,

With regards the 1841 census and in fact all census until the 1911.

These are copies of the schedules that no longer survive so the copying may be wrong.  Also in 1841 not many people could read and write and therefore the enumerator would ask the name and right what he heard.  If your ancestors had a strong accent and the enumerator was from a different place he may have heard fullwood as fullard.  It may well be that fullwood was pronounced ass full herd by the family, similar to how southwell is pronounced (suth hill)

Rob

[Ashie1973]

Just thought I would resurrect this thread to see if anybody can point me in the right direction.   To summarise I am trying to trace the baptism/christening record for a Cornelius Fulwood (Fullard on 1841 census) (b1811 Ilkeston, Derbyshire) to prove the father is John Fulwood (b 1765).

The only link to suggest John was the father came from familysearch.org.uk a pedigree submission by June Gail STACEY in the US. However on their records and discs at no point does she verify her source.   Lots of other family historians seem to be taking her online entry as gospel without checking for a source.

There is a poor law record from 1816 in Ilkeston that lists a Cornelius Fulwood to be the son of John Fulwood and the other brothers and sisters match, although the wife is listed as Amy, and other records suggest the wife of John should be called Anne Beardsley.

But I went to Matlock and trawled through their records and nowhere can I find any kind of record to show that my Cornelius Fulwood is definitely the son of John Fulwood.

So I just wondered if anybody had any suggestions on how I might be able to verify the father of Cornelius Fulwood?

Thanks.

[johnxyz]

My approach would be:

Double check all census data 1841 to 1881, noting that there appear to be 2 Cornelius Fullwoods (or similar spelling) - the second being buried at Heage and married to Sarah not Charlotte.. This should confirm Ilkeston.

Review the new Family Search site. It can be more comprehensive on good data than the old one, and has much of the junk data removed. It is also more useful for detailed searches. I have looked at Fullwood for Ilkeston, and there are many children of John & Amy 1792 to about 1807.  All are Ilkeston Baptist and searching the relevant batch year by year suggests the data either has not been indexed or is no longer available for 1808, 1809, 1810.

So - check what Debyshire Record Office holds - their website does have a list of all available non-conformist records, but I can't recall the url and I am afraid cooking duties mean I have to leave this for now.

Family Search does have the marriage to Charlotte, 1830 - worth checking the original for witness names in case that give any hints.

Good luck

PS later realised that the children listed for John and Amy in the Baptism index are the first 5 on the settlement certificate from reply #2.

[spendlove]

Hi,

If you are connected to John & family of the removal order, John would have been born in Bilborough, Nottinghamsire he was probably ill and unable to work so he and his family were sent back to the place of his birth.  It is quite likely that he died shortly after the removal, although there is evidence that he possibly had another child in 1820.

On the New Family Search Site, there is a Christening:-

John Fulwood born 9th July 1769 Bpt 7.8.1769 Bilborough Nottingham son of Henry Fulwood & Alice.
When this result appears, you can expand the information by clicking on the small triangle far right.  Here
you will also see "Source Film" in this case 504082.  If you now go to the OLD Family search site:-

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true

Under the heading LIBRARY (in blue across the top) select Library Catalogue
When the next page opens click on Film/Fiche Search (blue R/H side)
On the next page enter your Film Number
& at last you will see the full details of where the transcribed information has come from.

1841 Census HO107/189  Book 3 Folio 9 Pg 12 Ilkeston
Fulward   Carmie  65  (This looks like Nasmie to me)
Fulward   Frances 20

1851 HO107/2126 F 220 Pg 24
 Amy  is born 1774 Ilkeston

Francis married twice, 1842 to Kezia Beardsley and 1847 to Mary Eyley Trueman, in both cases he states his
father was John Fulwood.

Still cannot find Bpt for Cornelius.

Regards
Spendlove

[johnxyz]

I've now found the Derbyshire Record Office list of non-conformist records http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/images/Non-conformist%20Register%20List_tcm44-194618.pdf . It  shows a gap in the records for Ilkeston Baptist for 1809-1812. I do not know why. If there's any evidence the chapel was not functioning for that period,  it might be worth checking other possible non-conformist records. The area was strongly non-conformist, so there several posibilities - see the DRO list.  I have non-conformist ancestors about that period in Heanor - most baptisms are Heanor, but they range as far as Belper and central Nottingham. So you might need to look over a fairly wide area.

I believe that all the non-conformist records held by The National Archive in series RG4 have now been indexed by BMD registers. Cornelius does not seem to show up in them. It might be worth a look at the TNA catalogue to see which Ilkeston records are in their RG4 collection. The implication is that any they hold are not worth searching, unless you mistrust the indexing.

I think you need to consider what your approach will be if it turns out Cornelius's baptism  is untraceable. The circumstancial evidence points strongly to John & Amy. It would be supported if you can show there is only likely to be one other Cornelius Fulwood, (Baptised Pentrich 1805, acording to Family Search) and can separately trace him through marriage to death. 

I am not familar with teh detail of removal orders. Do they explicitly describe Cornelius as a child of John & Amy?

The evidence linking John to Bilborough and spendlove's identified christening for him looks solid. It's further helped by John having children named Henry & Alice, ie matching his parents.