Church Register Records Lookup

[DD70Dave]

Hi Scott

I’m descended from Mary Rudge (b 1817) daughter of Samuel & Mary Rudge.

Another of Samuel & Mary’s daughters, Ann (b 1828) married John Lightborne in Harborne in 1828. I have only recently discovered this marriage but it opens up a wealth of possibilities.

The Lightbornes settled near Buckingham (John was born in Leckhampstead), but John’s father, Thomas, gives his birthplace as ‘Oldbury, Shropshire’. Also in the area is a John Lightborne, b 1801 in Oldbury.

I then thought about the Samuel Rudge/Mary Lighham (sic) marriage in 1809. Clearly, Lighham is not a true transcription. It's possible that it’s a botched attempt to write some version of Lightborne (note: Mary has written her own name – it’s not her mark!)?

If you remember, Mary’s birthplace on the 1851 census reads something like ‘Holbury, Shropshire’.

A search for names a bit like Lightborne and Lighham brings up a Mary Lighton, baptised in Oldbury, Worcestershire in 1793, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth.

Is it possible that ‘Holbury, Shropshire’ is a Leicestershire census taker’s misunderstanding of a Black Country accent actually saying ‘Oldbury’?

Also being baptised in Oldbury around this time are children of Thomas and Elizabeth Lightburne – Thomas (1795), Ann (1798) and John (1801). In a couple of cases, according to the IGI, these baptisms take place at the “Presbyterian Church, Oldbury by Halesowen, Shropshire’. Despite the ‘Shropshire’, this is the Oldbury actually then in Worcestershire, but which now forms part of Sandwell.

It is reasonable to assume that the Thomas baptised in 1795 is the father of the John who marries Ann Rudge in 1850. Also, that the John baptised in 1801 is the one also in Bucks.

If we have a double whammy mistranscription of Mary Lighham/Lighton’s name actually being Lightburne/Lightborne, then it looks like she is Thomas and John’s sister and that the Ann Rudge/John Lightborne marriage is one between first cousins.

So far, quite complicated, but here my brain gets really fried…

Having traced Thomas and John Lightborne, and possibly/probably Mary Lighham/Lighton, I wondered about Ann Lightborne. This I wasn’t expecting:

Ann Lightborne married Samuel Rudge in Harborne in 1815.

But this is a different Samuel Rudge. If you’ve looked for the children of Samuel and Mary, you’ve probably found the children of this marriage as well. The main ones of interest are:
John, b 1817, West Brom
Samuel, b 1818, West Brom

This Samuel is almost certainly the one who ended up becoming a JP and Mayor of Dudley.  In 1851, John is to be found with his mother, who is now named Morris – Samuel died in 1826, and she remarried in 1830.

So, what we may well have is two different Samuel Rudges, who married sisters.

I do have a theory to connect them as well!

Dave

[sdweatherman]

Wow Dave,
That is quite convoluted, and very interesting. I will have to dig deeper into my notes and check this out. I haven't fiddled with the family tree in a few years, so it is about time I get back on it. The connection between Holbury and Oldbury is pretty solid - a most likely scenario. The two Samuel Rudge's in the area and the boundary changes between counties makes things interesting. Additionally, with my family working canals, family movement has been a challenge. I am back into the 1700s now and records are getting sketchy. Hopefully during my break, some additional records have made it to the web.

Thanks again Dave for taking the time to share this info. I think you are the first distant distant distant relative to chime in on this section of my family tree. If you didn't catch it earlier in this thread, I am descended from Mary's younger brother John b.1831.

I don't think I have chased down any of the female marriages from this group of kids yet. So who did Mary b.1817 end up marrying?

Scott.

[DD70Dave]

It is convoluted, but it all fits together quite nicely. If Mary isn't a Lightborne, there are a lot of coincidences going on! Mary Rudge married a glassblower named John Dunshee - my tree is online, this is the link to Mary's page

https://sites.google.com/site/smithsplus/home/stanford/samuelrudge1789/maryrudge1817

I've not got all the Rudge/Lightborne stuff on yet, as I've only worked it all out in the last few days

Dave

[sdweatherman]

Dave,
I dug out my copy of Samuel and Mary's church register entry for their marriage, and her signature could easily be Lightborne. I can see above that her last name was transcribed as Lighham by the person that was filling out the rest of the registry - he was having a hard time figuring out what her last name was.
Scott.

[DD70Dave]

Hi again Scott

I've been looking into what I can find out about the descendants of John Rudge (1931); Samuel ended up in East End of London, but I can't find the others after 1871. As you appear to be in the US, is it safe to assume that William John at least emigrated there? Would be interested in any info you can supply about where they settled.

Thanks

Dave

[sdweatherman]

Hey Dave,
My cousin William and I have our tree up on Ancestry (Rudge/Biggs-Reda/Gross) or I have just the (Rudge) part going on there also. I also have the (Rudge) tree up on the FamilySearch.org website. I am not sure if you can see those trees if you have an account on those sites - maybe? Otherwise, I can throw you a hard copy of our tree via email if you like. Just PM me if you like.
Scott.

[sarah]

I have a Rudge and Selina Ann Lightbourne who is perhaps the granddaughter of Mary Lighham so could it possibly be Mary Lightbourne

We had the above message sent to us as a "report to moderator" in error.

Regards

Sarah