The Kelman family

[Bill Pearson]

Hi! Monica,
Your don't give up message has prompted me to look at what certificates I have.

George Kelman married Elsie Allen on the 29th August, 1909 at St. Bridgets, Wavertree, Liverpool.  He stated he was a batchelor, aged 23 and that he was a sugar refiner, living at 37, Oak Street. His father was listed as James Kelman and his "rank or profession" was listed as Joiner. Whether the property was a block of flats or a house split into apartments, I don't know, because Elsie Allen was also living at 37 Oak Street and her father, Thomas Allen was listed as a painter.
William Roberts and Abegail Roberts were listed as witnesses.

Their first son (my late father-in-law) was called Thomas George Kelman when he was born at 37, Oak Street on the 28th February, 1910 and his father George was still listed as a Suger refiners assistant.

On the Marriage certificate of Thomas George Kelman to Annie Meek on the 27th March, 1937 in Liverpool, Thomas was aged 27 and his occupation was listed as a house painter. It states his father was George Kelman  and his occupation was as a carter! My Auntie Nancy was courting his brother (George Douglas Kelman - 1918-77) and she remembers George being present at Thomas wedding.

Now did George retire and die in the Liverpool/Lancashire area or did he move back to Scotland sometime after 1937 or was he arround for other weddings, the last being in 1946 when Hilda Kelman married Robert C Jones?

A lot to ponder

Bill

[toni*]

The first nearest match is a George Kelman, born on June 5th 1885 aat Edinkillie in the County of Moray and his father was James Kelman (b1850) and his mother was Jessie
Kynoch (b1848).  They were married in 1873 at St. Andrews Llanbryd in the county of Elgin.They had 10 children including George.  That birth date would put George as being
24 years of age when he married, not 23!


The next possibility!

There is a George Kelman born on the 8th March 1887 at St. Andrew, Edinburgh. His father was James Kelman (a police constable at the time of his marriage) and he married a Jane Taylor on the 13th March, 1886 in Edinburgh.  This would mean this George was 22.5 years when he married.  Did he just round up his age?  I have not come across any other children of that marriage, so far!

The search continues

Billo

what became fo these Georges? have you found them married with children elsewhere because obviously you can then rule them out

[toni*]

and this may be along shot but
http://www.archiveshub.ac.uk/news/06042401.html

Papers of the MacFie Family, sugar refiners, Greenock and Liverpool

perhaps he worked for these and that enable the move from Scotland to Liverpool

and http://home.clara.net/mawer/sugarnn.html

[Bill Pearson]

Hi! Toni

Thanks.  Had a look under that website you suggested, but could find no evidence of George Kelman.  His witness at his wedding was William Roberts who one can only guess was his best man as well.  Looked to see if he was employed in the sugar refining industry on that site, but again nothing found.

Bill

[toni*]

do you think maybe the MacFife family kept  records of employees or maybe a senior perrson may have kept a diary whoch could metion George ? it is an incrediably long shot and he was a sugar refiners assistant not the top dog himself - did he work up to this? do you know where he worked in Liverpool?
again this is a long shot but i know someone who was born in one palce and each time they moved the subsequently named thier house after this place and also at one point their business

do you know when George arived in Liverpool? have you looked int he trade directories for sugar refiners but as i said he was an assitant also when did he start paying tax to Liverpool Parish - the parish rate books wil tell you this, that would giev an indication of when he arrived in Liverpool.

[Bill Pearson]

Hi!

Will give it a go.  If we assume he was working in the sugar industry from, maybe, 14 years onwards, then we are looking at a period of 1900 onwards.

Bill

[MonicaL]

As we are thinking of general records, have you tried looking for any WW1 service records? Given his likely age, likely he would have been active in WW1. Service/attestment papers can often give place of birth.

Monica

[Bill Pearson]

Hi! Monica

Good thinking, well worth a try!

Bill

[MonicaL]

Just been having a look on Ancestry and can't see anything obvious for him unfortunately. Tried a variety of spellings for the surname but nothing showing. A number of WW1 were destroyed, something to bear in mind 

Monica