Joining the dots-Rixon family, Camberwell

[mc8]

Two of my rellies married Rixons, but despite lots of clues, there aren't any records which confirm links between the two sets of Rixons. The key bmds and census details are missing, so any eagle eyes would be appreciated
1st Rixons-Joseph Rixon, coal porter has a son William b abt 1852, marries Ann Alice Kemp jun 1873. I can't find any records for William before this date, but thereafter they live in the streets off Wyndham rd (Crown St, Beckett st, Sultan st)

2nd Rixons-Joseph Rixon 1815-1883 (labourer but listed as coal porter in 1878) marries Mary Flynn Feb 1846. They also live in the streets off Wyndham rd. They have several children, but not a William. In 1851 they are transcribed as Ryckson-son John Williams (b mar 1850) seems to be known as William. Sister Elizabeth marries into a different branch of my rellies

I can't find them in the 1861 or 1871, and I can't find a birth for a William b 1852 or thereabouts for Camberwell or Newington. I'm inclined to make the conclusion that William is the same as John Williams-but filling in the gaps would help
any ideas?
Monique

[lizdb]

Have you got the birth cert for John Willam?
If so are his parents Joseph and Mary nee Flynn, or someone else?

Is there a census where you have found both families, thus confirming there are 2? If so can we have the refs?

[mc8]

Have you got the birth cert for John Willam?
If so are his parents Joseph and Mary nee Flynn, or someone else?

Is there a census where you have found both families, thus confirming there are 2? If so can we have the refs?

john Williams parents are Joseph and Mary
there are no census records which show two families at the same time-but no records which confirm that William was actually John Williams, or that his mother was Mary

so the 1851 shows Joseph, Mary and children including a "William" whose birth date coincides with the baptism for John Williams (HO107; Piece: 1568; Folio: 300; Page: 53). Camberwell records are patchy-I haven't found a baptism record for William with a father Joseph at any date, but that is not unusual. They disppear till 1881 when John Williams has left home RG11; Piece: 694; Folio: 121; Page: 19

then there is William-his marriage cert suggests a birth date of 1852. I can't find records for him before that event (jun 1873) and the witnesses don't help

the 1861 could tell me if John Williams has a younger brother William, or confirm that he has become known as William and would help to explain why this name is given on the marriage cert

[lizdb]

OK, I have read this all through again and, in the absence of finding them on 1861/71 (I will have another look but no success so far) I would say you have a strong case for saying these are the same family, and that John William and William are the same person.
It seems that the only record of him being John William is his birth, on other records (1851 and marriage) he is William, and yet the other details on these (name of father, occ of father, addresses, name of mother on census) all tie up with that of the birth cert.

Another way to add weight to this would be via the sister Elizabeth, whom you say you have an interest in. If she is with the William on the census, and if her marriage shows the same father etc ......... and then if HER birth cert says parents are Joseph and Mary nee Flynn, then surely that is further confirmation?

[lizdb]

Oh, now I see a problem - there is no sister Elizabeth with the 1851 family ......

HO107 1568 300 53
1 Caroline Ct
Joseph Ryckson 35 labourer bn Newington
MAry 28 bn Ireland
Mary 4 bn Camberwell
Joseph 3 bn Camberwell
William 1 bn Newington

[Meliora]

This should help

Birth

John William Rixon
June ¼  1850   Newington  4    355 or 358, entry not clear

this fits with the birth date shown on his bapt st St Mary Newington
borb  16th Mar 1850  Caroline Court
bapt.  14th Apr. 1850

Meliora

[lizdb]

Ithink that is the one he has the birth cert for

The address of Caroline Court seems to clinch it - as that is the address in 1851!

[Meliora]

Is this the birth reg for Elizabeth Rixon ?   If you  have this cert, what are the parent's names ?

Elizabeth Rixon
June ¼  1862  Camberwell   1d  541

Have not found her on any census, nor any bapt.

Meliora

[mc8]

Ithink that is the one he has the birth cert for

The address of Caroline Court seems to clinch it - as that is the address in 1851!
[/quot
yes, that is the same family (or at least, definitely the 2nd Rixons)

what I'm trying to establish if William got both his name and date of birth wrong on his marriage certificate (should it have been John Williams b 1850)or whether Joseph and Mary actually had another child called William in 1852. The 1861/ 1871 census data would help to sort it out-but I can't for the life of me find them