Author Topic: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In  (Read 31964 times)

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:13 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant ... but still no Ellen junior   :-\AND Ellen senior age is somewhat out to that of Ellen Wheeler mother in law to Warren Ingram therefore mother of his wife Ellen Cul(l)mer
70 1891
36 1881
24 1871


Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline Tephra

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:17 GMT (UK) »



Bit of a stretch there Toni......aging 34 years in 10......!!!
Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.<br />Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden<br />Lamb In Bolton and Ireland<br />Grundy In Bolton<br />Blackledge In Bolton<br />Osbaldeston  ?? ??<br />Barnett in Islington<br />Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton

Offline janan

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:46 GMT (UK) »
Hmm wonder if Ellen Wheeler could be grandmother in law ie Ellen Colmer's mother? Maybe Ellen junior was born before marriage and brought up by her grandma?

Jan ;)

ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:47 GMT (UK) »
Thomas JOhnson  (member of slavage corps)says inthe court papers 'Mrs. Wheeler and her daughter, Mrs. Ingram, came to the house—on the Sunday, two or three days after, I saw the prisoner, I believe he came home to dinner—I was there, and Mrs. Wheeler and Mrs. Ingram were occupying the place, they had prepared dinner for his coming home' the prisoner in this case is Warren Ingram


Walter Dinney Police Inspector says '. That address is correct—the prisoner is an omnibus driver, in the employment of the London Road-Car Company—I know he comes off duty late at night, I believe about midnight; I do not know his hours—I should think it was too late for him to live at a place like Walthamstow—the result of my inquiries is that he had been living with his wife—I found this letter on him, addressed to Mrs. E. Ingram, District Post Office, Essex Road, London, England—it professes to have been posted in Melbourne—he said, "I got it from my wife," she has warrants out against her for being concerned in several of these fires; Mrs. Wheeler, her mother, was convicted a few days ago.'

Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive


Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:54 GMT (UK) »
that thought had occurred to me Jan thats why i just re checked the papers (above

just one note Frederick is the yougner brother of George it does not say he is the younger brother to Ellen also therefore Ellen could be born after Fred and George although she seemed to have a starring role in these fires along with George and Fred had only recently began to take part in them before being caught.

Ellen and Warren marry in 1890 so i would assume that she be at least 18 or 16 with permission of her mother - is that correct?
anyhow 1890 - 18 = 1872

Frederick Whitehead says in evidence
'when I reached Richmond Gardens George and his brother were in front of me; on seeing me they went ahead—after the fire we went to a public-house, and the prisoner said he was afraid it would be rather an awkward affair; that his brother Fred was quite new to the business, and he thought perhaps some query might arise—after that I went home'


Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:55 GMT (UK) »
do you think she could have exaggarated her age in order to receive a lighter sentence ?

again from court papers - Ellen Wheelers case
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the JURY on account of her age. — Five Years' Penal Servitude.
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline janan

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 12:59 GMT (UK) »
If Ellen was brought up by her grandmother she may be referred to as her daughter - my g grandmother was, causing me much confusion ::) :D

Jan ;)

I would think it quite likely she would say she was younger than she was but if Ellen really was her mother and really was 70 it would be difficult to say she was too young! Sorry I got confused you were talking about Ellen senior :-[ :)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline toni*

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 13:02 GMT (UK) »
was Alfred Cullmer born Devon or Dover ?
1881 Dover
1871 Devon
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline Tephra

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Re: Toni*s (OH) Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 13:03 GMT (UK) »
do you think she could have exaggarated her age in order to receive a lighter sentence ?

again from court papers - Ellen Wheelers case
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the JURY on account of her age. — Five Years' Penal Servitude.


But would she look 34 years older??     
Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.<br />Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden<br />Lamb In Bolton and Ireland<br />Grundy In Bolton<br />Blackledge In Bolton<br />Osbaldeston  ?? ??<br />Barnett in Islington<br />Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton