Help Please: Richard George NASH (born Bristol 1852) )

[AMBLY]

Hi Ed

Keep us posted on the chase for Mary Ann LAVENDER (We're a curious bunch! Indeed a lovely name 

Do you have access to the UK Census?
I'm pretty sure George and Ann NASH of the 1841 above, are James' parents. From the 1851 Census up to 1881, they're in Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton - it all adds up.  Southgate being where Albert said he was educated for a bit...I'll post up the details if you like?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Marengo]

Dear Ambly-

 Please do.
No, I don't have easy, immediate access to the UK census. I have been visiting the local library when necessary.
Anything I say is probably going to identify me as a rank amateur -
and I really don't want to go off along every sprig of the tree.
(viz beating around Lavender bushes).
(I did check BMD for James Nash/Lavender offspring - phew, none, phew).
I am really thrilled with what has been uncovered - more than I ever dreamed.
I'm just really very grateful for being steered along the rocky road of lineage by you folks. I just couldn't do this myself - I don't know all the places to look.
I must also tell you too - you would be surprised to know the number of my family (alerted to it by myself) that have viewed and are following the progress of this thread. (Which is why, I'm pretty much on my best behaviour).
From all of us, to all of you, we doff our hats and thank you all, once again.

Edric Eyre

[AMBLY]

Hi Ed and extended family 

1851: "Chase" - Village of Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
HO107 /  Piece: 1703 /  Folio: 118 /  Page: 28
Head: George NASH 50, Ag Lab, b Enfield
Wife: Ann NASH 49, b Stanstead, Essex
Son: Will'm NASH 27, unm, Pensioner, b Enfield
Dau: Eliza NASH 18, unm, b Enfield
Dau: Emma NASH 11, Scholar, b Enfield
               Southgate - where Albert, Richards brother, said he was at School for a time.

1861: Mayfield Lodge - Hamlet of Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG9 /  Piece: 797 /  Folio: 106 /  Page: 5
Head: George NASH 61, Gardener, b Enfield, Mdx
Wife: Ann NASH 60, Lodge Keeper, b Stanstead, Essex
Dau: Emma NASH 20, unm, Seamstress, b Enfield Mdx
          Mayfield House is enumerated just before them, and is a "Ladies School", either very exclusive or the young ladies are off for their hols - only 1 pupil is listed among 9 staff.

1871: Chase Side - Southgate, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG10 /  Piece: 1342/  Folio: 27 /  Page: 20
Head: George NASH 69, Working in a Nursery, b Enfield Mdx
Wife: Ann NASH 68, b Stanstead, Essex

1881: Chase Road, Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG11 /  Piece: 1390 /  Folio: 85 /  Page: 28
Head: George NASH 80, Labourer, b Enfield Essex
Wife: Ann NASH 80, Chairwoman (sic), b Stanstid (sic) Essex

Bad luck they never seem to have any of the family - married children, grandchildren -  with them around census time!


Going back to that 1871 which I mentioned last night - these two boys listed together:
1871: RG10 /  Piece: 1318 /  Folio: 63 /  Page: 28
"Thorn House" St Mary Rd - Ealing, Brentford, Middlesex
Pupil: C NASH 12, b N,K
Pupil: F NASH 10, b N.K

Head of the House is Wm H RAY age 36, Schoolmaster. All the students were male. I would guess all from, if not prominent or filthy rich,  then fairly well heeled families - it would only take a look into the background of a few to establish that probability.  And naughty Mr RAY or his 'proxy'  - quite a number of the boys have their pob is listed as N.K. (not Known). Methinks someone didn't want to be bothered finding out from the  school records or from the boys,  rather than  "didnt know"!

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22588
Thorn House academy was founded in 1836 by William Henry Ray in the former master's house of Great Ealing school... There were 36 boarders, aged 6 to 15, in 1851 and 77, aged 8 to 19, in 1871.....Under the Revd. Richard Mulcaster, Ray's successor from 1874, Thorn House was called a collegiate and commercial school.  ......In 1893 the original premises were occupied by St. Mary's college, which emphasized science ... and closed in 1895, the building becoming a Liberal club until its demolition in 1902"

I do think this is a good chance of being our NASH brothers, Charles L & Alberts J S.


Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Couldn't resist one little flowery google......

Mary LAVENDER - was listed as a Single Woman on the "Forfarshire"  in 8 Jul 1875. 
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/forfarshire.htm
(No other Lavenders evident - so young to be going to the other end of the world)  And 4 months later she married James NASH.  One wonders if she came out with the nuptials already in mind...?

It appears it was a double wedding - looks  as if she and James were witness to another couple's  marriage first.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ANZ-GEN-MAT/2006-06/1150341846
A Mary LAVENDER and a J NASH were witness' to a marriage which took place 11 Nov 1875 in Devonport, Auckland (North Shore).
The bride was a 25 yr old named Sarah Ann MIFFIN. The  groom a 38 yr old widower named George ELEMENT, a Painter & Decorator.

Again this fits. Since Albert had mentioned, he finished his education in Auckland.
Interesting, Mr ELEMENT's occupation - could this have been where it all started, through contact with him? Harnesssing natural artistic talents to a trade?

Also Devonport was (still is)  the base of the Military Barracks, now Naval base.   I wonder if James came out here to NZ  as a Settler Pensioner, still attached to the regiment?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Marengo]

The great thing about this whole exercise is that it teaches you never to take anything for granted.
Before I read your latest findings, (re James snr and Mary Lavender's marriage) I assumed that he was well ensconced in Gisborne by Sept 1875, having moved there directly from Auckland, after arriving in the Berar, in Sept 1873.
I had formed that idea right from the outset and it was later compounded when I saw the Auckland newspaper notice (below) - that he had somehow 'bought' a housekeeper/servant/bride, after having discovered their availablity, somehow, and had her then travel to Gisborne.
This would now appear to be an obvious misconception  - evidenced by the Auckland nuptials and the probability that son, Albert attended some school there.
 In other words, he arrived in Gisborne (where he spent the remainder of his life) complete with his three children and new wife, (looking for all the world like a fourth child), sometime after Sept 1875.
If the 'ad' below (which I reproduce mainly for historical interest) is viewed with 21st century eyes, it does seem almost tantamount to 'slave-trading'. Perhaps I  exaggerate a little, but you really do wonder how equitable a 'love-match' it was between a sixteen year old 'girl', barely recovered from mal de mer and a 47 year old Sergeant Major, who knew what an awfully long long way it was, back to Tipperary
However, wiser ones than me have said that we should not judge long past events in the light of latter day morals - so I will say no more.
Except - lucky for some!
The goodies just keep on coming. And I keep on being bowled over.
Cheers
Ed

[AMBLY]

Hi Ed

You know how it is. when you look and look for something: car keys, glasses and no,  not there. Then you look again where you already looked before and there they are, and you swear: some gremlin is playing tricks...well, look what I found umpteenth time round....a hop skip and a jump from George & Ann...

1871: High Street - Southgate, Enfield, Edmonton, Middlesex
RG10/ Piece: 1342/ Folio: 76/ Page: 15
Head: James NASH 47, M, Drill Instructor , b Enfield Middlesex
Son: Richard NASH 17, Painter, b Bristol, Gloucestershire
Son: Charles NASH 11, Scholar, b South Africa
Son: Albert NASH 8, Scholar, b South Africa
Servant: Charlotte PICKETT 41, unm, Servant, b Ponders End, Mdx

A***c** try  thought the name looked like "WASH"   

Cheers
AMBLY (who sounds calm, but is dancing round the computer)

PS: So, cancel those two boys in Thorn House in Middlesex 1871,  not yours after all

[AMBLY]

Now, what's interesting is: James in 1871  is listed as M for married:
  *Wife Jane elsewhere in 1871
  * Jane has very recentley died and he hasn't come to terms with "Widower"
  * Jane has been deceased for some time, but he still considered himself "married" when filling in the Census form.
   * Error by Enumerator

Searched FreeBMD between 1862 and 1871 for deaths in Edmonton of a Jane NASH. Only 1 result.

DEATH: 1866 - Jane NASH age 41 - Edmonton - 3a, page 113

Perfect match, born abt 1825.

If one analyses Albert's biography (which was contemporary - he was alive when it  was written and obviously the direct source of the information on his life). He said he was born in South Africa, and went to school for a bit in Southgate, came to NZ and completed his education in Auckland.

He made no mention at all of having had any education in South Africa.  So I deduce from that, he was probably in England by the time he started school : ie around 1866/1867/1868. Which makes the 1866 death all the more likely to be the right Jane.

Cheers
AMBLY

[trish1120]

What an amazing saga this has been.
And you are AMAZING Ambly.

Ed will be thrilled

[Marengo]

I've just had a little 'fantail' - a small NZ native bird, (the Maori call 'piwakawaka') fly into the house here. This is not a rare event - these small creatures show a great deal more trust in humans than humans as a whole deserve - and often out in the bush (forest), they will virtually perch on your shoulder, if you sit still enough.
The crux of this is to tell you that Maori traditional belief holds that their intrusion into a dwelling is the harbinger of a death in the family, or at least bad luck. Well, I am rather hoping that it isn't my time to be added to the long list of past Nash's.
And, if it only brings bad luck, I think it got the wrong flamin' house!

Wow! And double Wow!
To say I'm thrilled would be a total understatement. I am just in awe of you guys. And it is indeed a pity that the countless thousands of people who visit this site would only see this masterpiece by chance. (They'd have to serendiptously select 'England', click on a tiny 'Somerset' and even then, still be lucky to chance upon a posting that looks like every other one).
If there's an annual award ceremony, where they hand out 'Rooties', you guys had better make sure you keep the evening free.
It has indeed been an amazing saga. And, you know, I'm actually sad that it's now all over. For the past few days it has been a carousel of excitement, with brilliant stuff being uncovered by the hour. As I say, I am saddened that I now have to step off the merry-go-round, but also elated that the mystery I laid at your feet has been totally unlocked.
And, it all fits so beautifully! I'm pleased that the Bristol birth proved correct. The birthdate (1854) is not as the family had it (in 1852) but this is understandable in that it was exaggerated upwards to accomodate his wife's (Emma Cull's) birthdate of 1854. (It may be of passing interest to South Australians that Emma was the first daughter of a pardoned transportee, Caleb Cull, and born on the Bendigo goldfields at Tinpot Gully).
We now find that James was a Sergeant Major Drill instructor.
This explains why Richard, and I think his brothers too, were so seriously into physical pursuits - at a time when most people weren't. (It's no wonder they went bankrupt - they spent too much time playing!)
Richard (my ggf) was a professional athlete (runner), a boxer, a noted cricketer - well into his fifties, a rower, a crack rifle shooter and Australasian handball champion (a game like squash, without a racquet) as well as being a painter, singer and dramatist. (All this is supported by dozens of articles in the 'Southland Times' per 'Papers Past').
The 'drill instructor' background might also explain why the middle-aged James (snr) felt confident in taking on a sixteen year old bride.
Really, there is much more than this, but I don't wish to monopolise time and attention in here.
Obviously, I'm now quite interested in finding out a little more about Richard's grandparents, George and Ann Nash of Edmonton, Middlesex, but I will give you guys a chance to firstly recover your collective breaths.
I hope I haven't forgotten anything significant - I fear I have. I'll append it below, if it occurs to me.
Many many thanks to All -

Edric Eyre