ISPs

[Nick29]

You don't have to lose BT phone services to get LLU broadband.  You can have LLU broadband from Be/O2, Sky, Tiscali and a few others and still keep BT for your phone calls.  That's what I have here - Be LLU broadband and BT phones.

[Gatacre]

I wondered if that could be the case  instead of having to take the packages offered.
We  have a mobile phone but one that we top up occasionally so all that we need is the ISP.
Best wishes Nick and thank you.
Everything alters so quickly these days. Makes one wonder if one should buy the I Pad or whatever it is called to try and get ahead   By the time one reached the end of the learning curve it will be old hat!! 

[LizzieW]

Virgin broadband supplied via a BT line will be a re-badged BT Wholesale product, and it doesn't have a great reputation.  Cable and LLU products and BT Wholesale products are a world apart.

Haven't a clue what that means Nick.  We have a BT landline which we pay separately for, but have Virgin broadband and the package includes 'phone calls.  However we haven't had any problems other than the glitches that happened last year to one of Virgin's servers or whatever, and my daughter had those problems too, even though she is on cable (same town, different part).

Lizzie

[Nick29]

Virgin broadband supplied via a BT line will be a re-badged BT Wholesale product, and it doesn't have a great reputation.  Cable and LLU products and BT Wholesale products are a world apart.

Haven't a clue what that means Nick.  We have a BT landline which we pay separately for, but have Virgin broadband and the package includes 'phone calls.  However we haven't had any problems other than the glitches that happened last year to one of Virgin's servers or whatever, and my daughter had those problems too, even though she is on cable (same town, different part).

Lizzie

OK, I'll try to explain it better.   When broadband first came into the UK, the only place you could get it was BT, because only BT had the necessary kit in the telephone exchanges to be able to supply it.  Then people complained that BT had a monopoly, so BT started selling their broadband at Wholesale prices to other companies, so although you think you are getting broadband from Demon or Zen, you are actually getting a product delivered by BT through BT's own network.  The ISP's actually buy a certain amount of "bandwidth" from BT, and it's down to the individual ISP to limit the amount of people who will share this bandwidth.  ISP's who sell broadband cheaply are sharing the bandwidth amongst a lot of users, and this means that throughput will slow down to a crawl if there are a lot of people online.

Then later, Ofcom forced BT to allow other suppliers to put ADSL kit in their exchanges, linked by the suppliers' own networks - this is called LLU (Local Loop Unbundling).  Because these suppliers were not having to pay BT for their bandwidth, they could also sell the products cheaper, and not have to squeeze so many people in.  And an added bonus is that LLU suppliers are also able to offer the higher speeds that most BT & BT Wholesale customers won't be able to get until their exchanges are upgraded for 21CN, which hasn't happened yet for a lot of people.

If you get an LLU broadband service, the only thing that BT are involved with is the copper pair that runs from your house to the exchange - everything else is supplied by other companies.

[silvery]

Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but aol is now talktalk.   And that may be the reason for the glitches.   I've had aol for years with no problems, but lately .............   quite a few cut-outs.  And last Monday I lost the internet for about 2 hours. 

[Gatacre]

I think I metioned that since Talk Talk became AOL broadband  I had experienced the trouble , the same as when AOL Europe was  taken over by Carphone Warehouse who now has Talk Talk.  It is interesting to know that you had experienced trouble..The difference this time is that connection to the internet had become impossible.
Like you, when AOL is working it is very good   and since the connection has been restored  after having a repair man, it puts one in a quandry as to whether it is better to change from AOL or stay with it unless it starts to play up again.
I put the query to the Help Line about Carphone acquiring Talk Talk but received no answer.

Best Wishes
Norah

[silvery]

I've also started getting an advertising phone call, about how to not pay my debts.   
I let it roll and pressed 2 to get through to someone, and had a moan.  Said I was on the telephone preference service, and they asked was it the general one or talktalk.   
I'm going to give it a bit longer, and then I think I will ask them for my migration code, in order to change. 
But as you rightly say - where to? 

[stevieuk]

OK Carphone Wharehouse has & always has been TalkTalk, it now owns AOL (which remains a independently run company IIRC), they also own Tiscali, which means they own Pipex plus numerous others....Tisacli is/has been assimulated into TalkTalk & now is TT..no more Tiscali...probably an image thing.

Now Nick has posted a fairly good description of LLU etc. what isn`t pointed out is that many will have taken TT`s lovely cheap all in one package & now on TT`s network which means if you wish to switch you`ll have to then rejoin BT which if memory serves will cost £125 (yep same as a new line), then you`ll get a charge for re-enabling ADSL with an ISP (some ISP`s will absorb the cost, but lumber you with a 12-24mth contract).

I `m with Be like Nick, but it allows me pick & choose ISPs, either via BTW or via LLU & I retain BT for my phones. Cost wise its likely more than a fully unbundled package, but its gives us choice & freedom.

I know much of this is techie, so this might help.

LLU = Local Loop Unbundling (ie: the ISP has their kit/hardware in your exchange).
BTW = Brtitish Telcom Wholesale.
BT    = British Telecom.
OR   = Open Reach.
ADSL = in simple terms Broadband

BTW, BT & OR are all effectively BT, but have to run themselves independently or is it offer the same services to ALL companies irrespective. Some say there is a conflict, I don`t know.

BTW resell the network connections to any ISP that wishes to use it, price must be the same to ALL ISP`s including BT.

BT is the retail side & talks to Us the mere people who use their phone service or perhaps their ADSL services.

OR is the company that fixes the faults on the network, now I`m a little unsure if they do both phone or only ADSL, I believe its only ADSL faults.

Yes it gets complicated & confusing.

Just to add a bit more confusion...in the case of ALL LLU ISPs the copper cable from the exchange is owned/maintained & therefore fixed by BT/OR.

There are another couple of bits to confuse people more, Virgin "Cable" which IIRC was Telewest & a few other names, now collectively Virgin Media use a completely separate system from BT.

Another bit is in Hull which is Kingston Communications they effectively have a monopoly on supplies of both Phone & ADSL.

I`m sure some will now be totally confused....sorry...just trying to explain.

Steve

[silvery]

Yep, totally totally confused.

If Gatacre is with aol originally, then like me, will probably still have line with BT.   

Who is on offer with a bt line, apart from bt?