Author Topic: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?  (Read 3831 times)

Offline Old Mother Reilly

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Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« on: Wednesday 24 February 10 12:57 GMT (UK) »
I have a problem with finding a birth record for a lady in my tree and need some help!

The lady had the wonderful name of Isabel(la) Montague St. John Mildmay.  With such a name I thought I would be certain to find her birth registration but no luck! 

Her 1901 census return [error - should have typed 1911, sorry] (under her married name of Stevens) has her place of birth as Clapham, Surrey.  However, the only possible Isabel Mildmay in the previous 1891 census was born in Marylebone (she was with her widowed mother, also Isabel, born in Scotland). 

The father's name on her marriage certificate was Clement Mildmay but I can find no trace of him either and I think he was probably born and died overseas pre-1900.

I have looked through the various "home and away" birth indices on FindMyPast without success: I have also looked for the death of a Clement Mildmay between 1879 and 1900, without success.

Can anyone help me to substantiate her family?

Thanks

Rachel
Stevens (Devizes, Calne, Wootton Bassett): Hunt (Milford/Lymington, Calne): Moore/Rudland (Ipswich): Whitlock (Pitton & Farley): Hayter (Whiteparish)

O'Reilly (Sheffield, Flint, L'pool, Co. Longford): Foxton (Sheffield, Northallerton, Thirsk): Spragg (St. Teath, Delabole, Pengelly): Stabb (Berry Pomeroy)

Gore (Newbury, Wigan): Hawkins (Gt Bedwyn/Hungerford): Massey/Wallis (Shalbourne): Mildenhall (Ogbourne): Smith/Lilley (Nhants): Wernham (Chieveley): Woosnam (Mont./Salop): Yaldwyn (Blackdown)

Offline lizdb

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 24 February 10 13:12 GMT (UK) »
I guess this family is linked

1881
RG11 20 46 13
Paddington

H/H of Charlotte Trotter 78 Admirals widow bn East Indies
Alice F St John Mildmay 23 grandneice, Officers daughter bn East Indies

Also George St John Mildmay at RG11 1026 59 35

modified to add - and lots of others too in 1881!!
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Tati

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 24 February 10 13:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rachel,

I wonder if this could be Clement:

Burial 26 Sep 1881 St Nicholas, Tooting Graveney
Edmund Clement Walters St John Mildmay of 3 St Georges Sq Pimlico, age 27

 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 24 February 10 13:17 GMT (UK) »
Edmund is at RG11 103 13 20 in 1881
or maybe not ..... that one is Edmund H ...

BUT yes I think it is, address is 3 St George Square! :)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Tati

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 24 February 10 13:34 GMT (UK) »
I guess it's his dad, don't you think Liz?

Wonder if this is 'Clement's' birth:
Edmond Cecil Henry Arundel St John Mildmay
Jun 1858 Wandsworth 1d 400

 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Tati

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 24 February 10 14:01 GMT (UK) »
I had another look for Isabel's birth and wondered whether this could be her:

Isabel Montagu - Mar 1879
Marylebone 1a 537

The 1881 census details for this girl and her mother match the 1891 entry, but dad is William  :-\
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=13695228
RG11/135 59 39
 "My dear, I think the English pronounce it 'appiness"  

I'm afraid of no ghost

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 24 February 10 14:41 GMT (UK) »
That certainly looks like the girl we are looking for.

So I wonder what happened to make her use the surname St John Mildmay and state father as Clement.....?

I cant see anything obvious (like a marriage of Isabel(a) Montague to a Clement S J M making him her stepfather.

Maybe Isabel Montague was mistress of  Clement St John Mildmay but never married him, but took his name for her and her child.  Who knows. Or what happened to William Montague.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Old Mother Reilly

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 25 February 10 11:09 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your helpful posts, ladies!  Isabel(la) is quite an enigma.  The "St. John Mildmay" line is an old one with at least one long-term home base in Wiltshire.  In Victorian times they do seem to have been into the diplomatic and military services, which spreads their records out a bit.

As regards "Clement":

I have just found a birth in the Consular Birth Returns 1849-1854 for an Edmond Clement ............ Mildmay in Frankfurt.  This might be Isabel(la)s father.I see that the "William Montague" in the 1881 census entry was born in Germany but a British Subject.  Was that fairly common, I wonder, or is it significant?

As yet I can find no marriage for him in the FindMyPast foreign indices, on Scotland's People or at the GRO.

There appear to be two deaths in the GRO death register which are contenders:  the one in 1881 Q4 Kensington to which the Tooting burial refers (thank you, Tati) and one in 1889 Q3 Kensington for an Edmond C. St. J. Mildmay (age 31).

Isabel(la)s son was given the names "Edmond George St. John" - I don't know if the spelling is significant.

Contrary to my post I don't have Isabel(la) in the 1901 census (I should not try to proof my posts without putting on my reading glasses - sorry!).  She married George Henry Stevens in January 1900 and I have searched for both of them in the 1901 but not yet found them.

I think I shall have to order the birth certificate of this "Isabel Montagu" you found, Tati, just in case the name was mis-entered in the Birth Register, or if the family were using "Montague" in preference to "Mildmay" (if they weren't married perhaps this was done for the sake of the Mildmay family honour).  It seems the most likely contender so far.  Perhaps this would account for why Isabel(la) and her mother only used "Mildmay" later on after the head of household's decease.  And why later on should one move ones place of birth from North to South of the River?  Unless one were trying to cover ones tracks ...

Rachel

Stevens (Devizes, Calne, Wootton Bassett): Hunt (Milford/Lymington, Calne): Moore/Rudland (Ipswich): Whitlock (Pitton & Farley): Hayter (Whiteparish)

O'Reilly (Sheffield, Flint, L'pool, Co. Longford): Foxton (Sheffield, Northallerton, Thirsk): Spragg (St. Teath, Delabole, Pengelly): Stabb (Berry Pomeroy)

Gore (Newbury, Wigan): Hawkins (Gt Bedwyn/Hungerford): Massey/Wallis (Shalbourne): Mildenhall (Ogbourne): Smith/Lilley (Nhants): Wernham (Chieveley): Woosnam (Mont./Salop): Yaldwyn (Blackdown)

Offline madeleinelma

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Re: Born 1879 in Clapham: but where's the proof?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 21 March 10 22:21 GMT (UK) »
Lady Isabel St John Mildmay and Sir Anthony St John Mildmay were both godparents to my mother Elma Yates Addison at St Bartholomews Church, City of London on 17th November 1914.  I know this does not help to establish Isabel's lineage but I thought you might find it of interest

Madeleine