New to huguenot records - connecting families - help sought

[richarde1979]

Hi Elfin

Done some looking and have some interesting news.

Seems your man likely was a first generation refugee after all.

He joined Threadneedle Street Church 30 September 1781:

Jaques Antoine Vasseur , by abjuration T. Monsieur de la Chaumette 30 Sep 1781

The abjuration means he was either born a Catholic in France or had been forced to go to mass at some point, and had to abjure before he could join at Threadneedle Street.

To display how unusual this late date is, Threadneedle Street had 35 new members join that year, nearly all children of exisiting members, or 'lapsed' former members being readmitted. He was the only 'fresh' refugee from France. (the year before has likewise seen only one family, the Normands joining as new refugees from France). In contrast at the height of the Huguenot immigration in the 1680's Threadneedle Street was getting over a thousand new members a year from all corners of France, and people could not fit into the services there without frequent casualties from crush and heat exhaustion.

Here are his two baptisms there

Vasseur - Dec 20 1789
Jacques Antoine
son of Jacques Vasseur and Sara Baker.
Godfather Francois Nicholas Vasseur,
Godmother Susanne Baker
Born 5 Dec.

Vasseur - Dec 21 1794
Jean Henri
son of Jaques Antoine Marie Vasseur and Sara Baker
Godfather Jean Henri Machu
Godmother Susanne Catherine Machu.
born 8 December



The godparents interest me as Jean Henri Machu I have previously researched before, for one of his g-g grandaughters. The Machu family were from Quievy in the Cambresis, on the Flemish borders, and were part of the latter wave of refugees. Members of this family came over to London as refugees in the 1740's/50's/60's and 70's. In fact one of their number a Phillipe Jacques Machu of Quievy in Cambresis, who came over the year after your man in 1782, may possibly holds the title ot the last ever French 'Huguenot' to come as a 'refugee' to London  before the Edit of Tolerence was passed in November 1787. Quievy had a particularly troublesome Catholic governer, and the persecutions here continued long after they'd ended virtually everywhere else in France.

Many of the French Protestants in this area, including the Machus, crossed the border to the Protestant temple of Tournai in modern Belgium, for their weddings. However could not find any Vasseurs listed (perhaps he was indeed from a Catholic family in France as his abjuration suggests).

However I did find a Jacques Antoine Marie Vasseur listed on the French Family Tree site Geneanet.

http://gw5.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=wailly&lang=fr;p=jacques+antoine+marie;n=vasseur

http://gw1.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=gwoillez&lang=sv;p=jacques+antoine+marie;n=vasseur

They have him as born 1752, St Leonard, Pas De Calais, a clerk at the school of Ambleteuse and a labourer at Doudeauville.

They have him as married to a Marie Barbe Labarre in January 1783. This would seem to rule him out, but does make you wonder if he is the same person or linked to yours, as the name is quite unusual. Marie is a feminine name to my knowledge, and I've not seen a man have it as a middle name anywhere else before.

Hope that helps

Regards

Richard

[richarde1979]

We meet again Richard. Its me Ben, the one who I have been conversing with you on another forum and we found that I share ancestors with the Kray Twins.

Hello Ben, thought it was you, good to see you around again. How are you getting on with your researches any further on the Aubers and Morins yet?

[coombs]

I am doing well. Francois Fradin was the one who was born in Moncoutant in Bas Poitou, France and wed in London in 1759 to Elizabeth Morin and died in 1803 in the French Hospital.

As you found out he joined the Calvinist Church in 1752. The one born in 1731 was initally thought to be mine but it was a different one. I have found that he wed Mary Ann fearon in 1760 in Holborn and a Claudius Fradin was a witness.

[richarde1979]

Did you ever contact the archives in Poitou about  possible prison records for him Ben? It would be interesting to know the circumstances which led to him being imprisoned in France . I hope to eventually write an article on the latter wave of refugees 1748-80 and submit it to the Huguenot Society, and it would be nice to include Francois Fradins story as a case study for Poitou refugees during this time.

Funny Ben but I was thinking of you just this week what with the new Norfolk records coming online, your from up that region arn't you? Hope they have been helpful to you, I've managed to get a couple of my Norfolk lines further back.

[richarde1979]

Elfin

Just a bit of additional information

The witness at the first baptism Francois Nicolas Vasseur was married 9 Aug 1792 St Marylebone London to a Margaret Janet Frost. A Marie Francoise Adelaide Vasseur and an  Augustine Vasseur were both married in 1782, at St James Westminster. All 3 marriages West London rather than East, perhaps Jacques siblings?

Also Jacques  enrolled his daughter Sarah, as a pupil at the Threadneedle Street Church's Charity School aged 7,  Jan 1793 (His name is recorded on this record Anglicised as James Anthony Vasseur). Her birth date then would be more 1786, could not be as early as 1772 I would think.

Richard
 


Edit: Elfin I'm a bit puzzled as to where the 1772 date comes from Sarah, the age on the IGI Christening matches more or less with the School Record. These are the children as I have them:

Sarah Vasseur - 1787 Christchurch, Spitalfields
Jacques Antoine Vasseur - 1789 Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, London
Francis James Vasseur - 1791  St Matthew, Bethnal Green
Jean Henri Vasseur - 1794 Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, London
Augustus Ann Vasseur - 1796 St Matthew, Bethnal Green
James Anthony Vasseur - 1803 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Thomas William Vasseur - 1805 St Matthew, Bethnal Green
Mary Vasseur - 1807 St Leonards, Shoreditch
James Vasseur - b.1810, bap 1819, St Matthew Bethnal Green

The thought occurs, since he married a local girl, perhaps initaily they decided to baptise their children alternating between the Anglican Church, and French, to please both familys, a compromise? And then by 1800 with the French Church in serious decline anyway, gave up on this and settled with the local  Anglican Churches.

Edit 2: Found Sarahs Threadneedle Street Charity School Admission Record which gives her date of Birth:

VASSEUR, Sarah ; d. of James Vasseur and Sarah — born 18 Sept., 1787— baptised. Christ Church, Midx., 7 Oct., 1787. Sponsors: G. Ashton, L. Mercier.

[coombs]

Hi Richard

I have not contacted them yet. I need to so that I can find out which Francis is which as there were two born at roughly the same time in Poitou.

Do you have any further information on the Fradins which you may have in your records or the Obey/Aubers? I think Francis Fradin was a godfather to a few baptisms at Old Artillery Spitalfields as their transcript of registers are at Westminster Archives but I couldn't find anything else. Have you got Old Artillery registers at all?

Ben

[richarde1979]

Hello Ben

I do have a copy of the Societys transcriptions of the Artillerys registers. Several of my family also used this church.

Are these the two you found?

Elizabeth Marie Annereau  21 July 1757 Godparents Francois Fradin and his wife Elizabeth Morin.

Gabriel Rivalin 15 Feb 1768 , son of Gabriel Rivalin and Susanne Morin, Elizabeth Fradin as the godmother.


I think I have pretty much exhuasted the records available to me on the Aubers/Morins etc. Have you been to the Huguenot Library in Euston yet Ben? They may have charity records for Francois in the 1750's there. This and contacting the archives in France about the prison record are your best avenues to move further in my opinion.

Regards

Richard

[coombs]

Hi Richard

I didn't know about a Huguenot Library. I might have to contact them then. Susanna Rivalin's maiden name was Morin as she was the sister of Elizabeth Fradin nee Morin.

Francis and Elizabeth didn't marry until February 1759 yet he says he was married to her in 1757. Odd.

Ben

[richarde1979]

Ben, quite right the orig record just says Godfather Francois Fradin, Godmother Elizabeth Morin, no mention of wife, that was down to me!