Sweny of Dublin

[kenneth cooke]

I've just had an email about papers held by the National Archives Dublin,
relating to the Sweny/Swiny families, to which I'll reply online.

Michael Sweeny, brother of Eugene snr. (1750-1799) married Mary Swiny, from the Wexford Shapland Swiny family, who seem to be distant relatives.Their son was Shapland Swiny. (Michael had changed his name to Swiny.)
His grandson William Swiny, of England, came to Dublin in 1866, for the settlement of his father’s will. He was not known to the solicitors, and was identified by Eugene Sweny, coachmaker, a cousin of Shapland Swiny.
The papers relate to property, mar & birth certs etc. to prove that William was entitled to inherit his father's estate. I guess he shared it with his half brother
Shapland Hugh Swinny.

John Paget Sweny's son Rev. Eugene, had a son called Shapland Arthur Sweny, although he was not directly related to the Shaplands or Swinys.
He died in 1889, 12 years old.
Ken 

[kenneth cooke]

Just got two more Mar Certs for the Swenys, daughters of John Paget Sweny, Undertaker.
Emily mar. as Amelia Sweny to Edward Harding, Poplin Mfr of 15 Lwr Mt Pleasant Av. She was a minor, both signed. Witnesses were Arthur P Cooke & Eliz Downes. At St Peter's Dublin on 1.1.1873
Her father John P. was probably still in New York. Arthur was the brother of Wm & Thomas Cooke who married the two eldest Sweny daughters.

Georgina mar Wm Henry Talbot, Gent, son of John Noble Talbot, Gent. Witnesses J P Sweny, Undertaker & Thos D Wilson At St Kevin's, Par. of St Peter, on 23.8.1865.
Ken

[kenneth cooke]

To Ambyrne, (Ann Marie) re your Post No 4:

Electoral Roll 1939, Dublin at 4 Royse Rd. Ralph & Edith Sweny-
He was Ralph Schomberg Sweny, grandson of John Paget Sweny, Undertaker, and Edith was his wife, nee Frayne, married 2nd Qtr 1925.
They had a son, Ralph G. 1929-1932.
Regards,
Ken

[kenneth cooke]

To Bray, Re Post No 37,
There's a John Noble Talbot listed in Pigot & Co's Dublin Directory as a Commissioner of Inland Revenue & Taxes, but I couldn't find the date. The print style looked like early or mid-1800s.
On another page "Patron the King" so it must have been before 1837.
Perhaps he was WH Talbot's father or grandfather.

[kenneth cooke]

The Names Paget & Halpen
John Paget Sweny was named after his uncle, who was born in 1780 and fought at Waterloo as a captain, later becoming Major.
The second brother was Mark Halpen Sweny b. 1783. He was a R.N. veteran of Trafalgar and became a Captain.
The third brother  was Eugene jnr. who was the father of our J.P.Sweny.
Their parents were Eugene Sweny snr. and Elizabeth Halpen. I believe that Paget came from her brother's name- Paget Halpen.
The names Paget and Halpen/Halpin occur in five or six generations of Swenys, as well as in related branches. My grandfather Cooke had a brother Alfred Paget and a half-brother Arthur Paget, although Arthur was not descended from the Swenys.
Ken

[kenneth cooke]

Who were the Swenys ? I believe the Dublin Swenys were related to the land-owning Swiney family of Wexford, who were descended from an Owen Swyny, 'agricola' (farmer/landowner), of Kinsdale (Kinsale), Cork, born about 1610. He claimed to be descended from the Mac Swyny of Fanad, Donegal.
We are told that the Mac Sweeny clan were of mixed Celtic and Viking ancestry from Argyll, Scotland, who came to Ireland as Gallowglass mercenary soldiers (some say via the Hebrides).
It is not known when they arrived in Ireland, but it was probably in the 14th century. They advanced themselves by fighting as mercenaries, for the O’Donnels, the senior clan of Tir Conail (Donegal). At first they helped fight the O’Neills, the main rivals of the O’Donnels, and later helped the clan chiefs regain the lands that they had lost to the Anglo-Normans. Cattle and land gradually became the preferred method of payment.
The Mac Sweenys settled on the Fanad peninsula and acquired large estates. They gradually spread out and split into three sub-groups or ‘septs’, one of which, known as Mac Sweeny Doe, were especially distinguished for their military skills.
The annals of the clan say that a branch of this sept moved south and settled in County Cork, Munster in the 1400s. They became high constables to their new patron, the McCarthy Mor, whose seat was Blarney Castle.
The Mac Sweenys acquired various lands in the south, including Muskerry and Mashanaglass
(near Macroom). The McCarthys allowed them the use of Mashanaglass Castle.

“By the aid of the Mac Sweenys, ‘the Clan of Galloglasses’, who were invited down from the North, the Mac Carthy Chiefs (of Cork) succeeded in annexing West Muskerry to their possessions.
The date of the advent of the Mac Sweenys may be approximately determined by means of a pedigree compiled by Carew and preserved at Lambeth (Cod. 636). In it he states that the first of the Muskerry branch of the Mac Sweenys, Edmond, ‘was drawn from Ulster by Cormac Mac Carthy’ ―the same who built Kilcrea in 1467 and died in 1494.
(later) The Earl of Desmond and MacCarthy Reagh were also largely indebted to the Mac Sweeny Clan for the predominant position they obtained. Those galloglasses had the advantage of being professional soldiers, who did not, like the kernes, return in time of peace to agricultural work, but were maintained by the Chiefs who had need of their services. Burleigh wrote (1577) that ‘one sept of the Mac Swynes directs Owen MacCarthy Reagh as they list’  (as they wish) ”.  From “A History of the O’Mahony Septs” by Rev. Canon John O’Mahony

[kenneth cooke]

The gallowglass were sometimes used in punitive raids of retaliation by the clan chiefs.
"Munster was at this period (1568) in a very disturbed state. Thomas Roe, of Desmond, the brother of the earl,  and his cousin, James Fitzmaurice, made a raid into Kerry, which caused the Earl of Clancare to retaliate, by entering Cork and spoiling Lord Roche, who writes, September 14th, from Castletown, 'The Earl of Clancarty, accompanied by M'Donoky, O'Kyve, M'Auly, O'Donocowe More, O'Sullivan More's son, Edmond M'Swyny, and others, with six or seven banners displayed, has taken l,500 kine (cows), burned 7,000 sheep, all his corn, and a great number of men, women, and children.'  He therefore desires 'a commission to hurt the said earl'".  from ‘History of City & County  of Cork’ by C.B.Gibson. (The Earl of Clancare or Clancarty preferred to be called ‘The MacCarthy More’.)

One observer, Richard Stanihurst, says in about 1577:
"The galloglasses were grim of countenance, tall of stature, big of limb, burly of body, well and strongly timbered; feeding on beef, pork, and butter." 

The Governor of Ireland,  Sir Henry Sidney, on a visit to Cork in 1575, describes the locals who came to pay their respects―
"Lastly, there came to me five brethren, and the sons of two other brethren of one lineage, all captains of galloglasses, called Mac Swynes, who, though I place them last, are of as much consequence as any of the rest; for of such credit and force were they grown into (although they were no lords of lands themselves), as they would make the greatest lords of the province both in fear of them, and glad of their friendship."  Letter from Sidney to Privy Council 1575.
 
It is interesting to note that, 26 years before Kinsale, Mac Swyne gallowglass were paying their respects to the governor. But they had come south 100 years earlier and had probably broken the ties with their distant kinsmen from Donegal who were to fight the English on the side of the Irish earls at Kinsale.

In the late 1500s the struggle for power and territory between the English crown and the Irish earls was reaching its climax. The earls had much success, until the battle of Kinsale, Cork, in 1601. They marched south to face the English. They were supported by the northern gallowglass clans, including the Mac Sweeneys of Donegal, in their efforts to expel the English and reclaim their lands.

[kenneth cooke]

"The MacSweeneys of Tírconnaill (Donegal) commanded by Maolmhuire/ Sir Miles MacSwyne, Chief of Doe, set out  for Kinsale with Red Hugh O’ Donnell in the 1st week of November 1601 in appalling weather conditions. The progress of Red Hugh's army to Munster, during what is known as ‘the little ice age’ ranks as one of the most astonishing marches in history.  The MacSweeneys of Tírconnaill fought as rearguard during the retreat from Kinsale and, true to their galloglass oath to be victorious or die where they stood, most never returned."   From ‘sweeneydoeclan.com’ website- Event of 2001- Remembering the March to Kinsale.
 
At Kinsale, the English, under Mountjoy, defeated and dispersed the Irish, killing many and forcing the leaders or ‘earls’ to flee into exile in France and Spain. Not surprisingly, their lands were confiscated, and under James l, in what is known as the ‘Plantation of Ulster’, they were reallocated to Protestant settlers.
The gallowglass must have realized that, with the defeat at Kinsale and the flight of the earls, the old Gaelic way of life was finished, and in the future they would have to seek other patrons.
It was natural for the ambitious among the Queen’s Irish subjects, including some of the Swineys of Cork, to shift their allegiance to the greatest power in the region- the crown of England. After Kinsale the gallowglass began to find employment with the English, and this would have been an incentive for them to convert to the English church.
In the late 1600s, as the last of the Irish aristocracy were being dispossessed of their lands, some of the land-owning Sweenys may have converted in order to retain their wealth.
The subsequent affluence of the Wexford Swineys suggests that they had thrown in their lot with the English. In any case, the power of the MacCarthy More of Blarney Castle was broken. Queen Elizabeth coined a new word when she made the remark about Cormac Teige MacCarthy: “Blarney, Blarney, what he says he never means.    I’ve had enough of his Blarney.”

[kenneth cooke]

To sum up:
Owen Swyny may have been from Cork, but Kinsale sounds too much like a coincidence.
In any case, I believe that the Swynys and Swenys are descended from the group of Sweeny gallowglass warriors who came down to Cork from Donegal in the latter 15th century. Those who came to fight at Kinsale would not have wanted to tarry in the south.
A Mac Swiney family had possession of Mashanaglass Castle until recently.
They had obviously remained true to the old faith.
One member of this family became a Papal count, but was not the sept leader. The last sept leader, the ‘Mac Sweeny Doe’  lived in Donegal.
In a recent ceremony, which was described as ‘a historic return after 400 years, of a McCarthy stronghold, held for them by their gallowglass warriors, the MacSwineys’, Mashanaglass Castle was handed over to Terence Mac Carthy, who claimed to be the MacCarthy Mor, hereditary chief of the clan.Then in 1999, Terence was exposed as a fraud, when the so-called ‘MacCarthy Mor scandal’ broke. But he had already sold the castle to an American general who gave himself the title ‘Peacock of Mashanaglass’. (Not the bird- Peacock was actually his name !)
(Continued-See Post 60)