Questions About Marriage At Saint Dunstans ,Stepney

[Lydia Brinsley]

Can someone please explain marriage requirements for marriage at Saint Dunstan, Stepney?  Requirements: l. letter of recommendation from a subscriber,what is this? 2.affidavit of their marriage? marriage certificate? 3.husband's settlement, what is this? Daniel Brinsley and Sally Ann Millman marriage bans listed at Saint Dunstan 1 Sept. 1833, 27 July 1834, and 28 July 1834. As I read I find bans should be 3 Sundays in a row, is this correct? In 1834 this couple had 4 children. Daniel, born 1826, George,1828, John, 1829, and Joseph1830. This was a poor couple but they  took their children to Saint Martins in the Fields for their christenings. Question marriage after 4 children why could this be? Thank you, Lydia Brinsley

[geniecolgan]

Hi,

looking at the images, they had the banns called twice.
The first time in 1833, 18 Aug, 25 Aug and 1 Sep.
Then the marriage didn't take place so the next year they tried again.
The banns were called on the 13th, 20 & 27 of Jul 1834 with the wedding on the 28 Jul 1834.

Their first attempt may have been called of for any number of reasons; Illness, death in the family, their livelyhood required them to be elsewhere. Who knows 

[Lydia Brinsley]

Thank you. This is a help.

[geniecolgan]

Happy to help.

I've no idea why they didn't marry before the children were born. Again, it could have been a number of reasons.

[dawnsh]

Welcome to Rootschat 

Husband's Settlement: residents from 'out of the parish' were expected to have a settlement certificate issued by the parish where they came from. In times of hardship, they would be sent back to their place of settlement by the Poor Law Guardians so they didn't become a drain on the resources of the place where they were residing.

It's the same today, if you make a claim on your local authority, you can't then go to a neighbouring one and make another claim. You will be referred back to where you came from.

Dawn

[Lydia Brinsley]

All this research in England is new to me. I am learning so much from this wonderful site. Many thanks to all of you.

[chirp]

Sometimes a marriage does not take place even though banns have been read, if someone objects to the marriage. Is Daniel the father of all Sally Ann's children? Could there be a first husband? Did her parents object? It's just a thought.....
Chirp

[Lydia Brinsley]

Hello and thank you for your post.

Daniel Brinsley and Sarah { Sally } Ann Millman are my gg grandparents. All I know of them are from the 1841 and 1851 census finding them in Lambeth. I have other English lines 2 to speak of Lathrop and Harris. For some reason I am very drawn to this line and have information on them in the United States. Immigration for Daniel and his  children was in the 1850's to Brooklyn, New York. Sally Ann Brinsley died, burial 9 Nov. 1851, St Mary at Lambeth. The last child born to this couple Susanna Brinsley died 28th March 1848, Lambeth.

I have been using free BMD records and Ancestry records that I can use at my local library limited to one hour a day.

I have been going through all the Brinsley names in the London area trying to find a family connection. I am all the time thinking of the naming patterns for children in the family.

I found a Daniel Brinsley death 4th Feb. 1821, age 32, listed  St Pancras Parish Church ,Camden  which could be Daniels father.

Objection to the marriage I have no idea. Daniel was the father of all Sallys children I would think as they were age  20 and 21 when their first child Daniel was born 16, Aug,1826 Lying in Hospital Holborn, London.

I have not had the time to go back to the library to check for Millmans in the London area perhaps this would help.

 On the 1851 census in Lambeth Sally is listed as born in Devonshire, Devon. I have had no luck in finding her listed anywhere. Lydia Brinsley

 

[jorose]

"full age" was 21 so if Sarah was 20 when her first child was born she would have been not old enough to marry without parental permission, although plenty of people told a white lie on that one.  Otherwise, if she had got pregnant and Daniel was intent on staying around, their options were to 1) get married very quickly, 2) live as husband and wife without marriage.

Some churches in particular were involved in encouraging people in situation 2. to get married, sometimes years after all the kids had been born.

If Daniel Jr was born in the Lying in Hospital, in Holborn that is interesting - the Holborn hospital was for poor married women and records do exist at the National Archives.
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=The_British_Lying_in_Hospital%2C_Holborn

http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=11885&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=
It sounds from your first message like you have a list of requirements for entering the Lying in Hospital
1. letter of recommendation from a subscriber  - a subscriber in this context I believe is someone who is a financial supporter of a charity, usually with a set amount per year.
2.affidavit of their marriage  - not a marriage certificate (although you could get a letter from the parish stating that the marriage appeared in their records), but a sworn statement that they were married, possibly witnessed by some worthy person.
3.Husband's settlement certificate has already been explained.


I think that to go further you would have to look at the original records - e.g. at the marriage, when they finally did get married, there should be witnesses, and the baptisms should give addresses.

Also http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/ seems to have the RG8 (e.g. lying in hospital )records online (two entries for Daniel, one "birth" one "baptism"); this is a pay site but it would be very interesting information to have.