Why didn't they get married sooner?

[Annie65115]

Yes, that was the same child (and to confuse matters she's Frances A M Holyland on her death certificate (Holyland being her married name!).

I don't know what denomination the parish church in desford is, but I imagine it's CofE. They certainly weren't married in the chapel.

I'm not going to get any proof that Augusta was his child other than the proof we all accept WRT certificates, family ties in censuses etc. I'm happy to name him as the father. I can't exactly start doing DNA studies after all!

[DudleyWinchurch]

Hi Annie,

If it was "the Parish Church" then it will be CofE but, if you have the certificate it should also have a line on it saying "according to the rites of ..." where it usually says "the Established Church" for CofE.

I only asked as I have a similar situation about 20 years later, where a catholic church was involved and I wondered, in that case, if it was because one of them had to take instruction in the faith (which may have taken some time?) before marrying in the church.  I haven't found any infant baptism at all for that bride.

[Annie65115]

I have the certificate, though not with me at the moment - I'm sure it was simply in the local parish church, like all the rest of the Upton family.

[Gadget]

Augustin was a wheelwright.

I've been looking at the censuses for clues ~

Interesting that they are 'visitors' on the 1851   

HO107/2090/490/16

On the 1861:

RG9/2298/96/7

No sign of the older children with them on either censuses- did they die ?


Gadget

[Annie65115]

Re 1851 - they are visitors in Welford Rd. Now Frances had inherited 2 houses on Welford Rd when her grandfather died in 1840 so I wonder if that was the connection.

in 1861, their 3 oldest children (including Augusta) are with the grandparents, and by 1871, Augusta was married herself.

I did wonder if Frances married "beneath herself" and maybe her father withheld consent for that reason, although Augustin's father left 7 houses to be divided between his offspring too, so the Upton's, despite being wheelwrights and FWKs, weren't that poor either.
And as before - what would be worse? An illegitimate child or a marraige to a man from a poorer family?

[Rah1980]

Do you know who the two eldest children named as father on their marriage cert?

[Annie65115]

Augusta named Augustin as father. I don't have the marraige certificate of her brother, but he was born after Augustin and Frances married.

[Rah1980]

Was she known by her mothers maiden name or 'fathers' surname?

[Annie65115]

Augusta? by her father's surname. Upton. Until she married, of course!