John Williams

[hiraeth]

Hi Jo

I looked back to 1851 for Mary Roberts the neice.  She is with her parents a Peter & Mary Roberts (probably nee Jones - there is a 1846 marriage at St. Tudno) so no help there I'm afraid.

Do you have any idea how your man ended up marrying in Daventry of all places!   I was wondering if he worked as a gardener for the Mostyn Family.  It might be worth checking to see if they had interests in the area of Daventry?   

Heather

[jomiskelly]

No, I'm afraid I don't know the connection with Daventry.  The only vague connection I can make is that John's father was noted as a shoemaker on John's marriage cert to martha ELLIOTT.  I believe His father had died by this time and I wonder if John dabbled in the shoemaking business hence a Northamptonshire connection.

The reason for wondering if John dabbled in shoemaking was a bond I found at the Welsh National Library, for a John Williams when a Thomas Williams died intestate in 1857, John being the son.  Thomas was a shoemaker but it made note that John was too.  I pretty sure that they are the characters from my tree.  I have Thomas' death cert but the informant is seemingly unrelated.  I get the impression that John was a loner.  Almost as though he had severed most connection prior to 1865.  That's about all really.  Real pity they didn't have unusual names!!  I try the Mostyn idea, thanks

Thanks for checking out Mary Roberts for me.  Most kind.  I'm having another go at the census in 1851 for John!!!  I reckon the more I try, then more likely I'll find him.  Faliable logic!

[Jo Harding]

Hello again,

I am trying to find Thomas and John Williams on the 1851 for a start. Assuming Thomas is in Llandudno, it shouldn't be too difficult (in theory) as there were so few people there then. Do you have the address of Thomas from his death certificate?

The entry for John as spotted by Heather appears to be a distinct possibilty. The census shows that he is a widower which makes it more likely to be him.

In view of the fact that there was a small population in Llandudno in those days, I am sure there must be something somewhere. Question is where?

There is a record of burials in St Tudno's Church and I think you might obtain details either from Conwy Council, or from the churchwarden. Some of the memorials have perished, others were removed on safety grounds. You might not find what you are looking for because of this.

I should have thought that shoemaking would have been the connection to Daventry, could be he went there for better work than was available in his local area. Could he have served an apprenticeship there?

Jo

[hiraeth]

Hi jomiskelly

Do you have Martha Elliot on the 1861 census at Crayke Yorkshire?  ref RG9/3630/9/11.

If the correct Martha, she is working as Cook in the household of the Ven. Edward Churton, Archdeacon of Cleveland/Rector of Crayke(1800-1874).  More info about his accomplishments at  http://www.hymntime.com/tch/bio/c/h/churton_e.htm   

Perhaps the Churtons visited the newly built resort of Llandudno in the mid 1860s and that is how John Williams & Martha Elliott came to meet.   Was it a church wedding, civil or ?   

Heather

[jomiskelly]

Dear Jo and Heather,

Thanks for your input. 

Jo - in response:
Thomas, if it is the right chap (though Very few Thomas Williams, shoemaker and this one has a son John) died 3 Apr 1857 Old Road, Llandudno.  The informant was John HUGHES of Bryncryno?  Not sure of the place here.  I don't know of a John HUGHES for this clan

I have reconsidered AGAIN, the 1861 census for John and REALLY can't recall why I started to doubt it being the right chap.  It fits too well.

I am hoping that the detail of John having been a sometime shoemaker is not a red herring.  The ONLY place which notes his occupation as anything other than a gardener (or publican as well on the 1881 census) is this bond in 1857 re his father dying intestate. 

I am hoping my "cousin" may just find something up at St. Tudnos in the better weather!

Heather - in response:
Yes that is the same Martha but I hadn't realised her employer was a noteworthy person.  Why she worked there, I don't know but it may have been a connection of her father's who was a butler in Badby, Northants.

John WILLIAMS and Martha's wedding was in Daventry in the parish church.
I am working my way through census checks for John and his possible first wife by cross referencing with the BMD.  Tedious but has to be done.  Ha ha ha!

Will carry on with that avenue first and then start the others.  MNAY thanks again both for your hints and suggestions.  MOST welcome

Regards

Jo

[hiraeth]

Hi Jo

Please come back and post if/when you learn more! 

Heather

[jomiskelly]

Yes of course, Thank you for ALL your help.  Do I take it you're in Canada?  It's too early for England!
Jo

[hiraeth]

Yes of course, Thank you for ALL your help. Do I take it you're in Canada? It's too early for England!
Jo

Vancouver

[jomiskelly]

Very nice too, so I'm told.  Hope to post again soon

Cheers