Were pre 1837 births registered ?

[hiraeth]

Hi Peter

The head of household [no other rellies] was a Mary Sakker.

If you look at the actual 1851 census image the surname could quite easily be Tasker (it has been written over).  She would most likely have been Maria Tasker's mother.  IGI has the baptism of  a Maria Tasker Jun 2, 1827 at Horncastle d/o John Tasker & Mary.    Also a marriage at Horncastle bet John Tasker & a Mary KELK Feb 11, 1821. 

In 1841 Horncastle ref HO107/piece 637/folio 40/pages40 & 41 there is this household:
John Tasker (transcribed as Taylor) age 50, Shoemaker
Mary Tasker (transcribed as Tacker) age 45
Elizabeth Kelk (transcribed as Kerk) age 30
Frank Tasker age 4

Free BMD has marriages at District of Horncastle, Jun Q 1845, vol 14 page 765 with the names Elizabeth KELK and George BARTON appearing on the same page.

Sorry this doesn't help with finding your Harry Berkeley but it might save barking up the wrong tree

[peterbaker]

Hi Hiraeth

Very grateful for this new info. That 1841 census record was well dug out with all the transcription errors! Reading Tasker for Sakker never occurred to me, but you're quite right.

Maria Tasker's father was born in 1808, but I have done a little more work and I believe that the John Tasker who married Mary Kelk in 1821 was in fact Maria's Uncle. I have checked on Elizabeth Kelk [age 30 in 1841 census] and the IGI record gives her christening date as 26.10.1810 at Burgh-le-Marsh. The place and date ties in precisely with later census records for Elizabeth Barton. So in 1851 Elizabeth Barton was visiting her mother Mary [Sakker] Tasker.

Thank you for solving one of my mysteries - one of many niggling issues.

Peter

[hiraeth]

Hi Peter

Glad to help.   Have you done any research into the name Rowland Berkely?    In the parish register databases on Ancestry there are several Berkeleys with the name Rowland either as the first or second name. 

Also I noticed that the censuses mostly indicate that your Harry dob was c1829 which would have put him underage at marriage.  I wonder if he "disinherited" himself when asked for his father's name by the registrar because he was marrying against his family's wishes?  Possibly he was a rebellious youth!

Heather

[magicspice]

I wonder if he "disinherited" himself when asked for his father's name by the registrar because he was marrying against his family's wishes? 

Is this practice common??

many thanks

[peterbaker]

Hi Heather

I have looked into some of the other Rowland Berkeleys - quite a grand family in some cases. I cannot find a connection though with my HRB. I am currently thinking that he was illegitimate, perhaps fostered, but I still wonder where his name came from. Perhaps his father was one of the more distinguished 'Rowland Berkeleys' and his mother a servant who he took a fancy to one night!? Certainly looking at the occupations he claims in the various records, he was well educated, which suggests money somewhere in the family. However, I have searched and failed to find any confirmation of professional qualifications or other references to his professional live.

I actually posted more background on 5 March - 'The mystery of Harry Rowland Berkeley b1826'.  Who knows when his dob was, but I still believe my guess is more accurate!!

Since that previous posting I have progressed by making contact with the grandson of Harry Percy Berkeley, and now have a wealth of info on HP, a well documented priest, plus the maiden name of Clara [Read], from HP's birth cert, on which his father is named as Harry Rowland Berkeley.

Thank you again for your time and thoughts  ..  Peter

[hiraeth]

I wonder if he "disinherited" himself when asked for his father's name by the registrar because he was marrying against his family's wishes? 

Is this practice common??

I don't know.  I've come across instances where names of fathers have been invented, in order to cover up illegitimacy, and instances of people misrepresenting their age at marriage etc. to avoid parental consent, so anything is possible.   In this instance this young man may have come from quite a well known family or equally possible he was in fact illegitimate.   

According to wiki the Berkeley family is one of the few in England that can trace their lineage to Saxon times, so if he was related to a main branch of them in some way, he may not have wanted to broadcast it.   There was a Reverend Henry Rowland Berkeley who died in 1832 - apparently without issue - possibly Peter's Harry Rowland Berkeley was related to this man or his family or he was named after him by an admirer.  Unless his baptism can be found it will remain a mystery.  

Peter - since the "posh" Berkeleys most likely left wills, it might be worth looking in that direction for more clues?

Heather

Sorry Peter - crossed posts

[magicspice]

Hi Heather,
the reason I ask is because I ordered a marriage cert and the grooms father was blank. I had been on ancestry and found a public family tree with the same person in it, and that person's father. Cross referencing with the census, the son had lived with the father, knew his father, so why would he not put him down on his marriage cert? Its quite easily possible that the person who owns the public family tree has identified the wrong person as the father, but I did wonder if it was common thing to deliberately not list parentage??

thanks for your reply,
Heather

[peterbaker]

Heather

I've looked into the Rev Henry Rowland Berkeley, who died 1832. He was born 21.4.1740 in Cotheridge, Worcs [so unlikely to have fathered Harry Rowland Berkeley in 1826 unless a miracle was performed by his boss!] On an ancestral file on familysearch he has ancestors going back to the 11th century, and he apparently married Mary Jones, but I can find no further documentary record.

I am slightly heartened as Harry RB's [b1826] son Harry Percy was a clergyman, from a 'long line of clergymen' according to his grandson.

As a novice, could I ask 2 questions. How do you know that Henry [died 1832] was 'without issue'? Is the SP by the date of death an indicator? Also are wills available anywhere online?

Thanks  ..  Peter

[avm228]

Hi folks

Related thread here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,441996.msg3052637.html#msg3052637